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I still can't get my head around why the MAS plugins failed.

OK, you guys win by consensus. Keep doing what you're doing and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Clearly, I must not understand audio or Macs based on the responses I am reading.

You see, I have this strange thing that I do - when I have something in the mixer (Yamaha O1V) and the volume of the output from the mixer is far less than the output from the Mac, I mistakenly thought reducing the Mac volume was better than raising the mixer output until it clips. Silly me. Why, I should just keep raising the volume until its all really loud. Brilliant!

So for many of you, the level that comes out of your Mac to your interface is not adjustable as a function of the interface software or front panel. You have no attenuation and you see no need for it. It has always been possible for me, even with my "simple" M-Audio box (which I don't particularly like and am seeking to replace for other reasons.)

If one manufacturer puts a feature in their unit and another mfg doesn't, and someone (me) happens to like and depend on that feature to control what comes out of the friggin' Mac, why do you think NOT having that feature is not a problem?

It's not a problem for you because you have never had the feature available to you. The fact is, some mfgs do provide that feature and for a reason. If you don't understand the reason or just don't care - fine. Just keep on keepin on kids.

Frodo wrote:I still can't get my head around why the MAS plugins failed.

The MAS plugin most likely failed because installing the AudioExpress replaced the old MAS bundle with a new version. That new version was either:

1- Deleted by the uninstall app as I could not find it; or

2- If i missed it (possible but unlikely as I went thru it with MOTU on the phone TWICE!) the new audio bundle was for some reason incompatible with the FW410 AND DP if the AE was not present.

But it got worse as mentioned early in the thread. The AudioExpress also has a MIDI port (1 IN 1 OUT). When the AE software was Uninstalled, it left the MOTU MIDI Express-128 unrecognized in Audio/MIDI Setup. The MIDI driver for the AE is NOT going to work on the ME-128, just like the Audio driver is not going to allow the plugs if the AE is not present. At least that's my best guess, Mr. Frodo.

The plugs came back after replacing the entire Audio folder from a Time Machine backup from yesterday. The MIDI driver MOTU released in Jan 2010 was reapplied and the ME-128 reappeared.

All is back to normal now.

cuttime wrote:

At least until someone else has the problem(s). It will happen. Yes, let it go, indeed. I did and await my refund.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: OK, you guys win by consensus. Keep doing what you're doing and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Clearly, I must not understand audio or Macs based on the responses I am reading.

I'm sorry if my responses have given you such impressions. I'm just genuinely trying to understand what it is you're trying to accomplish that's not possible with the MOTU interfaces... So far, I think I understand it as the M-Audio could:
1) Have it's output adjusted the same way as a Mac's built in audio i.e via the special buttons on the keyboard
2) Had a universal virtual fader that adjusted the output

Am I correct so far?
I can understand the convenience of adjusting it via the keyboard.

You see, I have this strange thing that I do - when I have something in the mixer (Yamaha O1V) and the volume of the output from the mixer is far less than the output from the Mac, I mistakenly thought reducing the Mac volume was better than raising the mixer output until it clips. Silly me. Why, I should just keep raising the volume until its all really loud. Brilliant!

Well, you can, just lower the output from DP. Or iTunes. Or the movie on YouTube. Most things that make a sound have a volume fader.
Having one general attenuation for everything seems inflexible to me.
As I wrote earlier, I have a special headphone aux that I use to attenuate the volume coming from the Mac so I can match it when doing overdubs. Good thing is that when it's time to play back I don't have to raise the volume again cause playback is handled by a different fader. That I can also adjust.

So for many of you, the level that comes out of your Mac to your interface is not adjustable as a function of the interface software or front panel. You have no attenuation and you see no need for it. It has always been possible for me, even with my "simple" M-Audio box (which I don't particularly like and am seeking to replace for other reasons.)

No because everything making a sound has a fader (usually) and since every sound is different volume, a single attenuator seems rather pointless to me.[/quote]

I'm again sorry if I come on trying to slam you and your ways, I'm simply trying to understand them.

FutureLegends wrote:So far, I think I understand it as the M-Audio could:
1) Have it's output adjusted the same way as a Mac's built in audio i.e via the special buttons on the keyboard
2) Had a universal virtual fader that adjusted the output

Am I correct so far?

No, wrong on both counts, my friend.

1- I don't give a crap about the keyboard buttons, per se. Nothing to do with it.

2- I don't need a universal OUTPUT, I need a universal INPUT or MAC LEVEL adjustment.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: 2- I don't need a universal OUTPUT, I need a universal INPUT or MAC LEVEL adjustment.

Well, I meant output from the mac to the interface.
But that basically lowers all outputs too, no?

It would lower all the combined Mac audio into the box, yes, THAT is what I am looking for. Actually, what I have and want to keep.

I have always been baffled by the lack of this feature on MOTU interfaces as well.

I've been completely mixerless for a while. When doing overdubs it would be REALLY convenient to be able to balance the monitor mix (i.e., input signal vs. playback) entirely in CueMix, Otherwise, I have to switch back & forth between CueMix and DP if I want to change the playback level instead of adjusting the level of the thing I am recording.

It feels like the guys designing the multichannel interfaces at MOTU (and yes, many other but not all manufacturers) can't quite wrap their heads around the idea of running one's studio with no hardware controls for leveling. Granted, that may still be the dominant paradigm, but given that nobody's workflow would be negatively impacted by including a software fader for the computer output in CueMix, I don't get why they would not include the option.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

FutureLegends wrote:So far, I think I understand it as the M-Audio could:
1) Have it's output adjusted the same way as a Mac's built in audio i.e via the special buttons on the keyboard
2) Had a universal virtual fader that adjusted the output

Am I correct so far?

No, wrong on both counts, my friend.

1- I don't give a crap about the keyboard buttons, per se. Nothing to do with it.

2- I don't need a universal OUTPUT, I need a universal INPUT or MAC LEVEL adjustment.

Ok, have there been any radiation leaks so far? How about video gamma parity with Microsoft Word? Have you really plumbed the depths of this yet?





Shoosh

mongoose wrote:...it would be REALLY convenient to be able to balance the monitor mix (i.e., input signal vs. playback)...

I have to switch back & forth between CueMix and DP if I want to change the playback level instead of adjusting the level of the thing I am recording...

It feels like the guys ...can't quite wrap their heads around the idea...

I don't get why they would not include the option.

EXACTLY!

THANK YOU!

MLC-- most others chiming in have different interfaces than the AE. Those that have the AE who are happy with it deserve to be happy with it. Don't begrudge them that joy.

The AE was not the right interface for YOU, and there's nothing wrong with that. You just need the right interface. That's all. You quickly justified (privately) why you didn't really need the V4HD, but if you're buying $300 interfaces, you've yet to experience the sheer bliss of a fully featured device.

Look-- we're here not because of all the things we can create with pencil and paper and a Guttenberg printing press. We're here because of computers and technology. If we really made full use of pencil and paper, we wouldn't be here at all.

C wum sain?

So. You returned the AE. Good. Save your pennies and then look at an 896mk3, an Apogee Rosetta or Ensemble or for something that has the kinds of nobs and buttons you enjoy turning the most.

You might find that your money won't go to an audio interface at all.

Frodo wrote:Those that have the AE who are happy with it deserve to be happy with it. Don't begrudge them that joy.

He isn't, there aren't any, MLC was the very first one

Prime Mover wrote: He isn't, there aren't any, MLC was the very first one

Ah. My case in point. His plight might not have been fully understood-- but it's turned into "all of this"... so to speak. Hmm.

I think pioneers and guinea pigs and early adopters serve an important purpose around here where MOTU products were concerned.

Forget the input/output thing for a second. MAS plugins went daft and MOTU tech support acknowledged an issue with a particular volume control oversight, intentional or otherwise. There's some valid stuff going here.

Not all interfaces are created equal-- and prices can reflect that. In the midst of all the other noise, I'm seeing some legit concerns here.

Perhaps his particular unit was defective. It's rare, but it can happen. We are on the internet, mind you. If there is any way to find the exceptions to the rules, it will be on a forum like this.

I'm just saying. MLC is not a troll, a newbie, or a basher. He's stepped out in front of a lot of DP and OSX updates before most of us would dare. A respectable amount of what we know about Universal Binary came from MLC's brave first steps. I don't pity da foo, I respect him.

So, if no one else has jumped on the new interface other than MLC, I think that some of what he's saying should be given merit before it's shunned.

Okay-- I would recommend that a grain or two of salt might be required to get the humor behind the tragedy-- but Ren & Stimpy fans would understand where MLC is coming from.