A question for the Pro's about the modern POP sound

[Tonio Ruiz]

Back to original thread,

Dear Toño,

I'm making several pop projects with DP and you can get similar synth sounds like the ones that Redone uses (Lady Gaga's producer) from a VI like Nexus, DIscovery, Vanguard or a bundle like NI Komplete (Reaktor, Battery, FM8 and Kontakt).

DP "built in" VI's are limited IMHO and sound small and "Cheap", yes you can get decent results with Motu's VI, but if you want "that" sound, you will need something else.

Just saw an interview by Redone where he says that everything on Lady Gaga's album came form the factory sounds of Logic VI's, which btw are pretty good, but you can get the same or better results with the VI's mentioned above.

Best regards.

delcosmos.

Thank U very much Master!!! you're THE MAN!!!

[Tonio Ruiz]

thank u very much for your input guys

have anyone tried the BPM? it looks nice on the promo video

BFD is very nice, I like it a lot

I have and use BPM and the sounds in it are great.
With that said I also use NI's Maschine, Stylus RMX, Reason, Roland MV8000, NI Battery, and BFD. Point being that all of them have their own "thing" and sound, in some cases, their own "feel" as far as groove goes. I personally know a hit making hip hop/pop producer that uses an Akai S950 for drums and nothing else. Theirs no magic box or VI. Just use what works, sounds, and feels good to you.

awesome, I do think that BMP might be great and so handy, it seems to have great samples to play with...

thanx

[Tonio Ruiz]

This is difficult to say, because I really don't like having to rise up and defend MOTU's little VI's all the time, but I really don't think you're right about them being "small and Cheap." The limits are basically one's imagination. If one's imagination stops with the first few presets, then it may sound small and cheap. But you can get so much out of these VI's plus DP's plugins that it's ridiculous that so few people actually try. For goodness sakes; they're just sound waves. You can make them get up and dance. What the bigger 3rd party synths add is basically everything in one window. You can get more out of a single instance of them, and you get more effects built-in. But DP has tons of effects that you can add to these little synths and make them sound 10 times their size.

Oh, there are more differences than that, I guess, but "small and cheap" are just not accurate descriptions of these little powerhouses. Every time I use them I find something else that blows me away. Not fat enough? Slap on a limiter. Need more low end? Add some EQ. No arpeggiator? Think again: there's one in DP's MIDI plugins. And on and on it goes.

I'm sure people are tired of hearing me say these things, but I just think DP's VIs get a bum rap. They're very capable synths!

There shouldn't be any reason to defend them. Despite my personal feelings about DP's VIs, it's all a matter of a) taste and b) what you can achieve with the tools you select to use. In the OP's case, there's either a DP flaming in progress or he really is obtuse in believing that, simply by virtue of owning Logic, he can recapture the same exact sound a highly-paid producer in a studio full of expensive gear was paid to cull from scratch in the first place. Either one is just ... wrong.

I can sit here and type up a multi-page argument about why DP's VIs don't work for me, but I blew a considerable amount of money buying VIs and sample sets that granted me exactly what I needed for sounds inside of DP instead. It sounds to me like you'd be a lot happier using Logic. Or by doing all your MIDI tracks and loops in Logic, bouncing them to audio and then, importing that audio into DP to record your live tracks with. Lots of people do it that way, too. And good luck to you!

Gotcha!! thank u

[newrigel]

...or he really is obtuse in believing that, simply by virtue of owning Logic, he can recapture the same exact sound a highly-paid producer in a studio full of expensive gear was paid to cull from scratch in the first place.

But I thought Logic would make me sound magically great instantly!

I didn't know I actually HAD to do some work!?

That's the whole thing here... the press and ads promote you to purchase a DAW then you'll become a star! Even MOTU's ads do it. I don't care if Beyonce or Lady Gugu uses it, yes, it's a great TOOL but It doesn't manifest the raw talent involved with what makes a great piece of music... they don't show a picture of Quiz pulling his hair out or how many YEARS of his life he dedicated to his art to achieve what they do.
They should just state the truth and say "Lady Gugu's label dumps millions into A&R to cram it down your throat"... not, "this album was done in Logic and we used the stock VI's", so your under the assumption your going to do it too... it's just marketing.

But Tonio, anything can be used to make great sounds... just depends on your levels of proficiency and understanding of what your using. I'd say get something that you can really "grasp" as far as the way it's laid out and how the software VI's UI is designed to get to the controls so you can get what you want out of it... sure, some soft synths have some really good patches but if you start looking @ the 500 parameter tweaks it took to get to that sound... it's pretty overwhelming and it's a buzz-kill on your creativity. That's why I like the Spectrasonics stuff... it's simple to get to what you want and if you want to roll your up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, you can do that too but most of the Logic stuff is just as hard to program as anything else IMO so it's all about understanding the tool your using really.

[HCMarkus]

Just to throw some fuel for thought on the fire...

I find DP's built-in instruments very useful. The dearth of presets means one has to work harder to get "the sound," but doesn't mean it can't be done. It is often liberating to return to the days when we programmed sounds from scratch, guided only by our knowledge of synthesis and our imaginations.

On the other hand, although I could make a kick drum out of a sample of a toothpick snapping, it would take just a little longer than dialing up a sweet BFD kick.

On the other hand, I might create an amazing original masterpiece by using that tortured toothpick. I would have a sound no one else had, and it would inform my work in the most original ad interesting ways. People might even go gaga over it, and expend countless days discussing the magic I had created and the means utilized.

On the other hand, I might be significantly older than I already am by the time I finished my highly informed work. Maybe even dead.

But I might be remembered well.

And suddenly, we hear angels singing to the incessant four on the floor beat of a fractured disco toothpick, pitch shifted, EQ'd, compressed and resampled to a point that no self-respecting tree would consider the little sliver of wood anything more than a good-for-nothing chip off the old block.

[Tonio Ruiz]

I think I need to elaborate my original idea or question here

I am not looking for that magical piece of gear that would make you sound like the big boys and get a grammy to your table, that's not it

It is naive and kinda stupid to think that there is such thing out there, after years and years in the music industry making records as an artist and making records as a "producer/engineer in development" wannabe or how ever you want to call it, I've learn that the creativity and talent is what makes the road get better, and you must work hard to find the sounds and tones you need to get something good to the table, and with the tools you have at hand, knowing your tools is a bless

as I mostly do real instruments recordings, bands recordings, etc, I've been a bit away from Vi's, and being kinda new to DP, my question was how useful DP's VI's are, so spending money on Match5, Electric Keys, BPM etc is a good idea or not, and that kind of stuff

and I appreciate all of the input and tips shared here, really, to you all

[Matcher]

Hi mates, i was reading about many producers who are working their current productions regarding drum programing etc etc for modern pop artists such as LadyGaga that IMO sounds amazing, with DAW's like Logic, so, us being DP guys, which VI's and sounds would u use to get this pop modern and aggressive kinda sound?

As I do recording and mixing on DP, I haven't used VI's on DP so far, so, I'm a little clueless on this matter

thanx

With for example Lady Gaga's Just Dance, producer RedOne made the rough mix and then gave it to a professional mixing engineer to be taken to the next level. You can read about the process here

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09/a ... t_0309.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then, the album was mastered here

http://www.oasismastering.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;