MOTUnation.com

sourgrapes wrote:

charlesparente wrote:Shooshie's DP tips thread alone is worth $20 a year to me since I'm quite new to DP.

+1000!

Hmmm...

......20
+1000
$1020

$1020 * each user of MOTUNation/year...

Ok! We'll DO it! At last, I'm rich!

But if I were rich, I wouldn't need to work. And if I didn't need to work, I wouldn't be motivated to use DP. And if I got rich and quit using DP, life would be just an empty string of expensive restaurants, movies, Broadway shows, orchestral concerts, operas, trips to Paris, and my wife would be home 7 days a week... nahhh! Can't do it. I've got to stay with my ol' friend, DP.

The Tips Sheet remains free for now.

Shoosh

philbrown wrote:EDIT: Here's my half-joking solution:
Don't delete the thread - just lock it with the original post only and don't allow any responses. That would really send a message. New posters especially would think they're being completely ignored. It's just twisted enough I like it!

Problem is that it leaves a TRAIL all over the forum that can be found in search engines making it *APPEAR* that DP suffers from the problems these people allege. My biggest problem with running this forum is rather than posts about how to use DP or sharing working methods, solutions, there are people who view this simply as a place for them to scream at MOTU and exact retribution in the forum of trashing the company and Digital Performer. Unfortunately, there are cases where it's easy to spot that the person single-handedly trying to use this forum to destroy the reputation of MOTU and DP has a problem with their computer as their experiences fall well outside the "bell curve" as far as other user experiences.

Bottom line: leaving their often erroneous accusations unanswered gives those accusations credibility or at least doesn't balance the accusation. Hence sometimes the "not having that problem here" posts that the OPs hate to hear are indeed useful. It's the equivalent of saying "Chill out, dude... it's YOUR system not DP!" But heck... it's more fun to come here and rip the software to shreds.

These people, I strongly encourage them to switch DAWs as soon as possible, because of course then all will be perfect in their world and they can get all their work done that of course they just possibly can't because of DP.

Totally agree with you, James. People used to say "Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but little words can't hurt me." That was before the Internet. Now, words are weapons of mass destruction, and as soon as some jerk learns that he holds this incredible power in his hands, he can't wait to go use it. And search engines are precisely where it shows up. That's why it's important to change damaging thread names to "(Solved)"

It would be different if everyone crashed all the time. Just for reference, I'm posting my crash log and hang log, which shows very little trouble since 2008:



One can read the dates and see what's up. Some of my sudden quits in DP6 in Leopard don't show up on there, but there weren't that many. There've been zero since Snow Leopard, and I've used it heavily since then, sometimes 36 hours at a time.

Now, maybe there's some feature I'm not using that will still cause it to crash. I don't know. But I've still gotten an incredible amount of work done in a short week or so, and if DP truly sucked, that wouldn't be possible, would it? That's what irritates me; one person gets some kind of major problem, but instead of coming here and trying to solve it, he comes here and tries to take down MOTU. If it truly doesn't work, then where are my crashes and hangs? That's over a year's worth right there in the picture, and that was before Snow Leopard.

When people come in here and proceed to trash DP loudly and without concern for rational discussion, they forfeit their rights to display their opinions here, as far as I'm concerned. It causes real damage to all of us. This isn't a matter of censoring discussion. It's a matter of stopping an angry person hell-bent on destroying what belongs to all of us. In a world where information is a powerful weapon, censorship has to be further defined. If you can build a case for why DP sucks, and you show it to be true, then hey, I'm with you. But you can't do that as long as people like me can display proof that it does not. (the above is just a part of the proof. The other part would be the many recordings I and others have made) And that means that further aggressive behavior has gone beyond discussion and opinion since the aggressor knows that what he is saying is not true, and moved toward slander and libel, which are NOT covered by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, but strictly forbidden by US law.

Shoosh

You hit the nail on the head. Because of the internet, the ability for someone to inflict REAL damage on an individual or organization is frightening. And if you inflict that damage on a company's product and it's reputation and hurt their sales only to find out the problem was your cheap RAM or third party plug, app, whatever, the damage is already done.

I recently opened up this forum to be read by people who were not members and hence search engines will probably start indexing posts. That may or may not be a policy worth continuing.

Also, not that this has ever happened on this board, but I have to wonder if in other industries people who work for a competitor either with or without their employer's sanction, attempt to sabotage another company by flooding forums with reports of a product's problems and spreading disinformation.

Somewhat related, I recently bought a new car after 12 yeas with my previous one: a 2009 Honda Fit. I had looked at a Nissan Versa hatchback but decided to go with the Fit due to greater cargo space. A Nissan person called me to follow up and I explained my decision to them and that I decided to go with the Fit. "Ooooh... okay then... just be careful..." "What?" I say... "Oh... they have some safety issues, etc..." Fortunately, I'd just looked at the safety rating earlier that day. The Fit has six airbags and one of the best safety ratings for a smaller car. It improved from the 2008 model, admittedly. I called the Nissan person on it and said that perhaps they were thinking of the 2008 model and let them off the hook, but surprise, surprise, a car dealer will LIE to you. Shocking revelation I know.

Car dealers? NO! Say it ain't so!

OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation. Clearly people have had many issues with DP. The Mac is a system that just works, you guys know it runs on UNIX, Apple controls all the hardware that goes into the machine. Seriously how can one Apple computer differ from another of the same type. If DP ran on windows machines I could see the point of the its your machines problem.
So maybe some people are having problems and it is the software and not computer. Sure many people use DP very successfully but for me it has been to glitchy with way to many hangs, you know the spinning beach ball.
Anyway on my Intel Mac every other piece of software I use seems to work quite well, of course all software has some bugs, but when I use DP my computer it has a problem????
Photoshop works,Illustrator works,Cubase works,Logic works and every other software I have used generally works quite well, my plugins all work as well.
Oh wait I forgot about religion entering into the equation.
MOTU rocks, DP is the best, it is very stable, fast and works with every plugin I throw at it.
I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

bezzy wrote:OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation. Clearly people have had many issues with DP. The Mac is a system that just works, you guys know it runs on UNIX, Apple controls all the hardware that goes into the machine. Seriously how can one Apple computer differ from another of the same type.

Different software extensions, different OS versions, different audio hardware, different drivers, different plugs, different hard disks, different video hardware, different memory configurations by different vendors...these all have effects. There is almost no such thing as two identical computers. Two of the same model mac may have different third party components in them.

All software has bugs. Software is a human endeavor, humans are fallible, thus software has bugs. Some bugs are worse than others. DP has its share and we work together to work around them and lobby to get them fixed. That's why we come to this forum. If you don't have a question about how to do something or why something happens, or a solution or tip for someone else, then why are you here?

bezzy wrote:OMG I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

Hope springs eternal.

James Steele wrote:Also, not that this has ever happened on this board, but I have to wonder if in other industries people who work for a competitor either with or without their employer's sanction, attempt to sabotage another company by flooding forums with reports of a product's problems and spreading disinformation.

There is actually an industry term for it: Astroturfing. It's a despicable practice, and one of the reasons I won't use certain products if a company engages in such shenanigans.

More can be read here:

Astroturfing is a word in English describing formal political, advertising, or public relations campaigns seeking to create the impression of being spontaneous "grassroots" behavior, hence the reference to the artificial grass, AstroTurf.

The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations...

bezzy wrote:OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation. Clearly people have had many issues with DP. The Mac is a system that just works, you guys know it runs on UNIX, Apple controls all the hardware that goes into the machine. Seriously how can one Apple computer differ from another of the same type. If DP ran on windows machines I could see the point of the its your machines problem.
So maybe some people are having problems and it is the software and not computer. Sure many people use DP very successfully but for me it has been to glitchy with way to many hangs, you know the spinning beach ball.
Anyway on my Intel Mac every other piece of software I use seems to work quite well, of course all software has some bugs, but when I use DP my computer it has a problem????
Photoshop works,Illustrator works,Cubase works,Logic works and every other software I have used generally works quite well, my plugins all work as well.
Oh wait I forgot about religion entering into the equation.
MOTU rocks, DP is the best, it is very stable, fast and works with every plugin I throw at it.
I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

If you want constructive feedback, try providing some objective information. You bitch and moan in your post, but you provide nothing about your system config, the nature of the supposed problems you are having with DP, crash logs, screen shots, and so forth. Instead you post a run-on paragraph that sounds like sensationalism, which I realize passes for objective thought in some circles these days, but a screed by any other name is still a screed.

If you have an issue, provide specifics and people will try to help. Otherwise, it's just noise.

billf wrote:

bezzy wrote:...blah, blah, blah...

If you want constructive feedback, try providing some objective information. You bitch and moan in your post, but you provide nothing about your system config, the nature of the supposed problems you are having with DP, crash logs, screen shots, and so forth. Instead you post a run-on paragraph that sounds like sensationalism, which I realize passes for objective thought in some circles these days, but a screed by any other name is still a screed.

If you have an issue, provide specifics and people will try to help. Otherwise, it's just noise.

+1

Circular logic

Well, the declaration of "I'm switching to [insert competing DAW name here]!!!" on a pro-MOTU forum is along the lines of screaming "I'M IGNORING YOU!!!" over and over to someone in hopes that they realize they're being ignored. It's juvenile behavior. If you really had the means to switch to a new DAW, wouldn't you just ... do it?

James, positive or negative, anything that draws people to this forum and begins an interest in MOTU or DP is a good thing. I don't think I've ever seen a negative post go unpunished on here (including my own), and whatever negativity abounds is more than outweighed by the positive side -- if someone has a problem, we're a lot quicker to help resolve it (or at least act as a support group) than even MOTU is, there's pages and pages of posts extolling the virtues of DP, and MOTU-centric content aside, there's tons of professionals on here posting free advice and opinions on composing, mixing and mastering music.

bezzy wrote:OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation.

[SNIP]

I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

Congratulations for completely and utterly misreading my post. I said nothing of the kind was happening here on this forum. I never said anybody was "trying to ruin MOTU's reputation." What I have, however, been considered with is people inadvertently damaging MOTU's reputation when they attribute problems to DP that may not necessarily be the fault of DP. Is that clear enough for you?

bezzy wrote:Oh wait I forgot about religion entering into the equation.
MOTU rocks, DP is the best, it is very stable, fast and works with every plugin I throw at it.
I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

Oh almost missed your little gem of sarcasm here. Nothing religious about it. Check around the board... all sorts of criticism is allowed here. You just didn't read my post very well, but then that's hardly a bannable offense.

bezzy wrote:OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation. Clearly people have had many issues with DP. The Mac is a system that just works, you guys know it runs on UNIX, Apple controls all the hardware that goes into the machine. Seriously how can one Apple computer differ from another of the same type. If DP ran on windows machines I could see the point of the its your machines problem.
So maybe some people are having problems and it is the software and not computer. Sure many people use DP very successfully but for me it has been to glitchy with way to many hangs, you know the spinning beach ball.
Anyway on my Intel Mac every other piece of software I use seems to work quite well, of course all software has some bugs, but when I use DP my computer it has a problem????
Photoshop works,Illustrator works,Cubase works,Logic works and every other software I have used generally works quite well, my plugins all work as well.
Oh wait I forgot about religion entering into the equation.
MOTU rocks, DP is the best, it is very stable, fast and works with every plugin I throw at it.
I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.

Actually, there's tons of variables in any given Apple computer. Operating system, PCI or PCIe cards, disk drives, hard drives, processor speed, processor types, audio interfaces, software that could conflict with other software you have installed, audio plug-ins. There are people on here running G5 PPC towers and people like me running Intel-based Mac laptops and even a few lucky bastards running Nehalem Mac Pro towers. By your logic, I should be able to run DP 6 on my G3 iBook -- they're both UNIX-based Macs, after all. And if it doesn't run on that iBook, I should be able to sue MOTU.

DP 6 has its share of problems, granted. Are you making a living with your audio software? Have you not gleaned any solutions whatsoever from everything that's posted daily on this forum? Then, switch to a different DAW. Because no amount of kicking and screaming about how DP 6 doesn't work as advertised on here is going to either a) cause MOTU to slap its collective head and go "Damn! This bezzy guy's onto us! Get cracking, fellas, because we have some software to kick into shape!" or b) suddenly make the spinning beachballs magically disappear. Switch to a different DAW. Buuuuuuut ... before you click on that "Buy Now!" link on Sweetwater.com, you may want to visit the Digidesign forum, the Steinberg (Cubase) forum, the Logic forum, even the Sonar forum. You think DP has issues?