MOTUnation.com

James Steele wrote:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Don't get me wrong. Sweetwater has great prices and I have bought plenty from them - and will again. But let's not confuse advice with cultivating sales leads. And there's nothing wrong with that; I just think this is the wrong place [website] for it when done with such blatant commercialism. Am I O/T?

I've said this many times in different ways, but I doubt Brad is getting rich off of being present on this board. Further, I'd suggest that if other dealers wanted to come on here and try and give helpful advice, I wouldn't mind-- but they don't bother. Brad is also human (from what I've heard) and so his opinion is just that... an opinion. I may agree or disagree. I don't think he's motivated by the desire to make a bigger sale when he gives advice... I think that's his opinion. And... others are free to disagree and do. You should take the opinion of any person, whether in sales or not, with a grain of salt and trust your own ears and judgement. Brad oinion is not always right-- neither am I-- neither is anyone. Comes as a shock, I know.

Thanks James. And for the record, I wasn't trying to sell him anything...... he mentioned he spoke with someone at Sweetwater, so I was just inviting him to contact me to share my opinions and insight. Looking back, I should have just done that via PM.

I've been using a pair Oktava MK-012 for the past 7 or 8 years. I've always loved them stock for acoustic instruments, percussion, and overheads. In October I had my pair modified by Michael Joly over at OktavaMod.com, and it was a totally great experience. I've put my modified MK-012s up against a KM-184 and I prefer the Oktavas; I feel that they sound more natural. The KM-184 is a great mic, but for the price of one of them you could have a pair of OktavaMod MK-012s, modified by OktavaMod, with multiple capsules.

A single modified MK-012 with three caps (cardioid, hyper, and omni), plus 10dB pad, clip and case is only $50 over your budget.

http://www.oktavamodshop.com/index.php? ... rnc989a0b2

You could always buy one used on eBay and possibly save some cash for the mod, however $449 for this modified mic set with all three caps is going to be close to the same price and much less frustration than piecing it together yourself. If I had to do it all over again, this is what I would do.

I also own a variety of LDCs (AT4050 pair, AT4047, AKG 414 B/ULS, and a pair of Red "RedHead" caps for the MK-012s), however I prefer sdc mics for acoustic instruments.

My $.02,

Jeff

BradLyons wrote:

michkhol wrote:

Jim wrote:Look at the mics they use in concert videos. If the instrument sounds good to you, then that should tell you something.

I'd love to see one with domras (see the first post) besides those with myself recording. Seriously, what's good for the sound reinforcement is not always ideal for the studio.

Agreed! Often what I use for live sound I use because I can't use what I would use in the studio.....

So, then by inclusion what you're both saying ("often" and "not always") is that sometimes the same mic will work well in the studio and live. Presumably, concert videos are staffed by people who know what they're doing, and are regularly professionally employed, so why not benefit from their experience, as opposed to taking advice from a bunch of hobbyists, semi-pros, and part-timers? Some of whom, BTW are endorsing the workhorse of all live and studio mics, the SM57, contrary to their negation of my advice.

Who are you going to believe, your own eyes and ears, or some internet blowhard... myself included?

Tip: Watch "Down From The Mountain," a mostly bluegrass live event, where most of the recording was done LIVE with some of the most valued "studio mics" in existence. There were several mandolins being played.

Jim,

You'd be surprised how many times microphones are placed on-stage for show, but not actually used. AS to working live v/s studio, I'll give you a great example..... Are they using the mics for just recording, or re-enforcement? Are there stage monitors involved? I might have (4) KM184's on a choir for the front of house, but actually using a pair of Earthworks TC30's for the recording. Likewise, I might be using SM57's on several stringed instruments for FOH but I'll be using a Royer SF12 for the recording. I'm not saying studio mics won't work, that's not true at all---but when you're dealing with live, you're dealing with various issues---each one impacting the next.

IF you're using in-ear monitors, it's not really a big deal.....and if you're using active splitters when using the same mics so the gain-stage can be controlled, again not a big issue. But I do a fair amount of large-scale live recording, and it's quite common for me to be using microphones separate for recording v/s FOH.

BradLyons wrote:All of this talk about microphones......ARGH, I just picked up a new AKG C214 to take home. I hate these forums sometimes! LOL

I'm very interested in your opinion of this mic!

mikebeckmotu wrote:

BradLyons wrote:All of this talk about microphones......ARGH, I just picked up a new AKG C214 to take home. I hate these forums sometimes! LOL

I'm very interested in your opinion of this mic!

I have (6) older C414's that I use live, not my favorite mic---but they do come in handy. I like them for the top-end they have, although it's a harsh top-end it sounds good on acoustic guitar when mixed with my tube pres. I'm going to use it primarily on snare drum, honestly. But I figured it would also be good just to have one around since I NEVER use Omni other than drum overheads---but those mics are already taken care of.

Well, that's good background info to know! Is the C214 supposed to be like the cardioid-only version of the 414? Or do I remember wrong...?

mikebeckmotu wrote:Well, that's good background info to know! Is the C214 supposed to be like the cardioid-only version of the 414? Or do I remember wrong...?

From what I understand, yes----or at least "based" on it. You'd think I would know this, hmmm?? Then again none of my C414's sound the same anyway, they are probably older than me

Ok, back to the topic. I just made a few test recordings with the AT U873r and it does not ring. Will test more when the player comes. You guys should try it on an acoustic guitar...

As I mentioned a few posts back regarding sdc mics, the modified Oktava MK-012s are really great. I know that a lot of folks have these mics stock and they sound good as is. However, the mods really provide clarity and open these babies up. They have been my main sdc mics for 7 or 8 years and my only complaint regarding them has been the top end sparkle. I just felt that they were a little dull. Now modified, they just sound natural. Add a little bit of 12kHz "Neveish" EQ if needed and there you go. Again, I prefer them to the KM-184, and with the variety of caps they are swiss army knives.

Here is a current thread over at TapeOp regarding sdc mics with Michael Joly from OktavaMod chiming in about a box of mics he's giving to the TapeOp community to pass around. You'll notice that I'm posting the same stuff there as I am here regarding my love for these mics, his mods, etc.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Regarding the AKG 214, though I have never used this mic, I feel that picking up a used 414 B/ULS is the way to go. I mean, I paid $400 for a used 414 B/ULS back in 2003, and I see them for under $600 all of the time. I paid a little less than $700 for my AT 4050 pair new!!! I feel that the 214 is really over-priced when you consider the other options out there that sound, I am sure, just as good. I also feel that multi-pattern is the way to go with LDCs unless you are picking up a color or dedicated vocal mic. Or a vintage Nuemann, Gefell, or Telefunken. If I was dropping $600 on a LDC, I'd want it to be more than a one trick pony. Just my opinion.

Jeff

michkhol wrote:Ok, back to the topic. I just made a few test recordings with the AT U873r and it does not ring. Will test more when the player comes. You guys should try it on an acoustic guitar...

I wanted to apologize for butting into the thread. Sorry about that!
Thanks to Brad, though, for the comments.
And to Gearboy - I've been tempted by the Joly mods a few times, and your comments are steering me toward actually doing it. Thanks for adding your suggestions.

Not having ever recorded a Domra - but having recorded mandolin many times I have used the following mics:

AT4050 (singly & in pairs)
KM184 (singly & in pairs)
AT4041 (singly & in pairs)
Rode NT1 (original version)
TLM103
TLM193
SM7 (not the 57 - though with all the 57s I have around here you think I would have tried it at least once!)

Of those my least favorites where the TLM103 & the AT4041 - the 103 because it lacked a gentleness in the top end and the 4041s because they even more so seemed harsh up top.

The TLM 193 & the NT1 were surprisingly similar in result...and both very good. The 4050 was also very good, though a little more strident than the 193/NT1s. The KM184s were very nice, detailed and full. And the SM7 was a real eye opener - it had an organic feel that the other mics didn't get.

Which was my favorite - well that depends on the mandolin, the place the mandolin is taking in the mix and the intent of the overall mix and music. Were I to recommend a single mic - the KM184 would be the one. It will sound good on any stringed instrument - not as bright as many other mics and very detailed.

And - interesting note I was just made aware of: when Tom Scholz recorded the first Boston album in his Watertown basement...he recorded the acoustic guitar with an EV RE16 (everyone go pop in More Than A feeling and listen) and all the drums were recorded with SM57s (even the kick). I think the down side now is that without an interesting pre - you're going right to DAW with no added texture - at least Tom had a reel-to-reel deck to add some low end bump and top end honey. Not that that should deter anyone from trying a 57. It might just work. In the end the equipment used means nothing - it's the final song that matters. If it all works everything was done the way it should have been.

Though - GearBoy...I've been eyeing the modded MK012s for a while...you may have just pushed me over the line...I think I need to get a set.

sdemott wrote: Though - GearBoy...I've been eyeing the modded MK012s for a while...you may have just pushed me over the line...I think I need to get a set.

Well, as I mentioned, you can get a pair of the OktavaMod MK-012s with three caps each, -10dB pads, clips and a case and for the price of a single KM-184. I wish that I had a copy of the drum tracks that I engineered back in November when we ran them through Brent Averil 312s (API 312 Clone). Anyway, the MK-012s earned a solid reputation during that session.

I'm sure that Michael Joly over at OktavaMod would let you demo a set of them or let you return them if you weren't 100% into them.

Jeff

sdemott wrote:Not having ever recorded a Domra - but having recorded mandolin many times I have used the following mics:

AT4050 (singly & in pairs)
KM184 (singly & in pairs)
AT4041 (singly & in pairs)
Rode NT1 (original version)
TLM103
TLM193
SM7 (not the 57 - though with all the 57s I have around here you think I would have tried it at least once!)

I'm using now an AT U873R which I'd recommend for plucked string acoustic instruments. It does not sound harsh, but has the fullness and the bite, at least with my Metric Halo preamps. I intend to publish some samples when I' ll have a solo (accompaniment will not tell much). I will be testing the new SD line from ADK mics soon, will try it on domras as well . Basically the ADK SDC capsule is supposed to be a hybrid between KM84 and KM184. http://www.hybridmic.com

Is the SM7 and SM7b the same thing or they are different?

michkhol wrote:Is the SM7 and SM7b the same thing or they are different?

yes - that's the mic. Mostly known as a broadcast mic - it's quite popular with the "heavier" vocalists...though, those of us old enough to remember, will recall it was the vocal mic used on Michael Jackson's Thriller album.

It was the best $300 I ever spent - I use it on vocals, voice overs, kick drum, hand percussion, stringed instruments. It really does a good job in many situations. Needs a good preamp with a good 60-65dB of clean gain.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the ADK - have you ever tried a BeyerDynamic MC930?? IMO its a perfect KM84 clone. Smooth and detailed with no harshness. I would be curious to see how the ADK compares.