Looking for a new 88-key weighted control/synth...which one?

[Dwetmaster]

I heard VERY good thing on the P90
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 3D,00.html

[dcoscina]

Check out the CME VX8 controller, best grand piano action ever.

I must disagree. I played one the other day and I thought that while it was quiet with a nice throw, when I began controlling a mod with it, the velocity inconsistencies were still present as they were on the UF8 (which I owned for a while). Once again it takes a sledgehammer to get 127 velocity on that darned thing. I was going to wait for their ZSC series but frankly, the StudioLogic SL990XP was cheaper and better built IMO. Fatar have been around for years and I'm sure they are the ones who make the keyboards for Yammy and Kurweil products.

[Shooshie]

But whatever you do, stay away from Fatar. That is, unless you want to get serious carpal-tunnel, and leave bruises on your fingers. That weighting is just insane! I dunno what kind of piano Fatar is trying to emulate, but I've never played on anything that hurt that much! I've played quite a few heavily-weighted concert grands that feel just fine, Fatar controllers feel like you're pushing on lead weights supported by 10-pound test springs.

Are you joking? I play my Kurzweil 2600's Fatar 88 endlessly, and never even remotely get tired. It does double and triple strikes evenly, and most importantly, I can get every velocity from 1 to 127 out of it. (I've tested it) I think it feels closest to a Yamaha upright. I've got only one complaint: it's rather noisy. I'd like a more silent action. But it doesn't make any difference in a recording, since it's a line input or MIDI, not a microphone, just annoying.

Honestly, I don't know if you've tried some strange model, or if you're just using hyperbole to make the point that you don't like them, but I've never experienced anything like what you said. I'm the first to say "to each his own," but... "carpal tunnel syndrome? Bruises? Lead weights? 10 lb. test springs?" C'mon. You can't be serious. Everyone who sits down and plays my keyboard comments voluntarily on how great it feels. One of those pianists is a woman who is among the finest pianists in the opera world, accompanying many of the greatest opera stars, having performed at la Scala, the Met, and even command performances at the White House. She loves this keyboard, and says it's the first "synth" keyboard she's ever actually liked. I don't think she would if it were bruising her fingers!

Shooshie

[daniel.sneed]

I totaly agree with you Shooshie.
I'm no pianist, I confess, but Studiologic VMK is the first and only key controler wich I feel at ease with.
I'm guitarist and used to play rather big hard strings (13-55).
Any musical instrument must present a *strength* I can push against to produce expression. And that's no hurt at all there, just power and pleasure.

BTW can any one help me to understand why the footswitch sends some endless release MIDI datas ? This happens 1 of 3 actions of the footswitch.
Not a concern for me yet, but I don't like to see this uncontroled activity.

[mhschmieder]

dcoscina, thanks for letting us know that the CME VX8 does NOT fix the velocity "gaps" in the UF8 -- that takes it permanently off my list!

As for the StudioLogic SL990XP, as it is so hard to keep track of the rapid model changes over at Fatar-land, do you have a comparison of that keyboard to the VMK188plus, in terms of action and features?

I can probably find some of this at one of the two Studiologic/Fatar websites (which have contradictory information), but as Fatar is wont to change specs on existing products and/or shift them significantly with just a slight change (if any) to the model number, user feedback is of more interest.

I may have to call musiciansfriend for a third time to get that refund to apply -- it still hasn't shown up. I hesitate to take money out of savings to buy a keyboard right now, but time is running out... so I may just grab that refurbished GEM PRP700 before it disappears.

[FMiguelez]

But whatever you do, stay away from Fatar. That is, unless you want to get serious carpal-tunnel, and leave bruises on your fingers. That weighting is just insane! I dunno what kind of piano Fatar is trying to emulate, but I've never played on anything that hurt that much! I've played quite a few heavily-weighted concert grands that feel just fine, Fatar controllers feel like you're pushing on lead weights supported by 10-pound test springs.

Your comments just show how taste and likes/dislikes vary WILDLY from person to person.

It would've been more "correct" to state what you wrote as YOUR opinion, YOUR experience, because the way it reads is as if all of us Fatar users are playing on some piece of cheap crap, and have relentlessly injured ourselves, and obviously, that is not the case at all.

--

I really like the way they feel. The only complaint I have, and this has nothing to do with Fatar, is that I have not been able to repair some keys that don't work properly. I've had mine for many years, and finding a good keyboard technitian here, who KNOWS the Fatar mechanism, is nothing short of impossible. So I've had to deal with this bad C1 and Db5 "bad" notes. What annoys me the most is that, precisely C1, is the one I need to use very often for keyswitching my VSL instruments
Sending it out to the USA for repair would be way expensive, and dealing with customs is like dealing with the devil. Guess I'll pick a newer one when I go to NY, hopefully by the middle of this year.

Take advantage of the fact that you can go to any GC and actually TRY them out for yourself. Down here we have to buy whatever (not much) we can find in our local stores, or make the purchase based on recommendations.

I'm jealous, now

[mhschmieder]

Haha, maybe in Lalaland, but at least in the Bay Area, we have to order Fatar on faith alone. Years ago, local stores and the Guitar Centre chain carried them. Otherwise I probably would never have been introduced to the brand.

I've owned many Fatar-branded and Studiologic-branded keyboards over the years, as well as other keyboards that use Fatar action. The only technical problem I've ever had has unfortunately been near the centre of the keyboard with a key going bad. It is not so easy to fix due to parts availability in the US. Also, Fatar has changed distributors several times.

I have always considered Fatar a good bet and a good buy, and they were the first to offer anything close to piano action in a standalone keyboard. Also, they were quite innovative when they first started, offering keyboards that were built into their carrying case (and were quite light).

It's been awhile since I've played a Kurzweil MIDIboard, but at least in the early 80's I found their keyboards a bit weird feeling compared to Fatar's, as they had too much wiggle as a result of catering to the organ players' needs simultaneously with those of the pianists. But I don't remember if that was the MIDIboard or something that preceded it.

Nevertheless, many products that use their synth-action keybeds (such as the Nord Electro) do feel painful to me after even short periods of play. But remember that these are their synth-action keybeds; not their weighted actions. And for me, with a pianist's background, almost ANY synth-action keybed leads to pain eventually -- it's just a matter of how quickly. I don't really consider it a valid comparison.

[daniel.sneed]

In Luxembourg, even VMK161 (hammer 61 notes) was in store to see, play and feel it before I purchase !