The 8-core Mac Pro Value Equation

[davedempsey]

It's easier (and wiser) to hang onto a Neumann mic you bought 15 years ago for $3k than it is to hang onto the computer you bought around the same time (can you imagine?).

I paid around 10 grand for an Apple II FX over 15 years ago.

This stuff is quite cheap now days.

The question is; will Performer be able to utilize all the power the OctaMac has to offer?

The question is more whether the box architecture can cope with the 8 x 3gig CPUs. With our current 4 gig RAM ceiling I don't imagine we can stress the box/CPUs in DP. Is this machine able to be utilized or is it a caged Tiger? Furthermore, will the cooling system be inadequate in any case? 4 x 2.66 or 8 x 3gig in the same case - I don't know enough at this time to make a decision and I don't have a lot of time to waste.
The problem with sitting on the fence is you can get quite used to being there. I'm almost tempted to go for the 4 x 3gig box as a compromise - it being the first option I eliminated as not worth the spend!

[Timeline]

Hey tim, i spent 5 grand on a Apple Lisa, that's just about as bad although I traded it back to an x wife in a divorce so I guess at least that laugh made up some difference. hehe

[monkey man]

Hey tim, i spent 5 grand on a Apple Lisa, that's just about as bad although I traded it back to an x wife in a divorce so I guess at least that laugh made up some difference. hehe

Ha! Very funny, Gary.

[grimepoch]

The current track I am working on is all audio now, no VIs. There are a lot of plugs going on (as I mentioned before).

At 64 x 2 buffer (the 2 is host multiplier) when the song is running (and it hits red quite a bit)

27 Threads
1.35 G of RAM (and there is 1.7G free)
212% CPU (just barely using three cores)

Dropped it down to 256 x 2 buffer

27 Threads
1.47 G of RAM ( close enough )
129% CPU

In this case, I do not believe when tracking at 64 I am going to see any gain. I am maxing out and not even using more than half the CPU power.

Just for the hell of it, at 256 x 2 I turned on all the softsynths to see the stats

33 Threads
1.96 G of RAM
162% of CPU.

54 stereo tracks (108 mono)
8 mono tracks
4 aux busses
1 master
29 MIDI tracks
11 VIs
45 Effects (native & UAD)

I think we can all agree that is pretty amazing. This is on the quad 2.66. I am barely using 1 1/2 CPUs and have A LOT of tracks (for me anyways). I don't feel like I am even pushing what I have. And at 64-bit, no more additional CPU's I feel are going to help too much since I am not using all four I have now. That said, I don't know if the OS keeps one of them more free for system level stuff, but I am not really using up the 3rd one either.

People who will benefit the most I feel are heavy calculations that can be pipelined on non realtime functions. Like renderfarms and such.

Seriously, have $1.5k extra, get a 30 inch display!

[Frodo]

Furthermore, will the cooling system be inadequate in any case? 4 x 2.66 or 8 x 3gig in the same case - I don't know enough at this time to make a decision and I don't have a lot of time to waste.

I've been wondering about this, too. These quad machines *are* the quietest Macs, but they are also candidates for some of the warmest.

[dix]

I've been crunching the numbers on this myself. Apart from the cost of the the 8-core w RAM and storage there's the rather hefty price tag of upgrading all my apps and PCI cards. That cost alone is well over a thousand dollars! Even after I've sold my 2x2 and UAD1 card I'm still looking at $4500 or so out-of-pocket for a new MacPro. ....just cost of doing business I know, but it's steep.

So RAM, new internal storage, PCIe cards, upgrading everything to UB....anything else? I keep thinking there's some other expense involved with this transition. Am I forgetting anything?

Thanks

[Timeline]

Think there is also some fees by 3rd party plug makers like Waves to bump up but I could be wrong about that.

Scarry for sure.

[Frodo]

Think there is also some fees by 3rd party plug makers like Waves to bump up but I could be wrong about that.

Scarry for sure.

Yep, if you're running any East West plugs you can't use the NI players on the Intel. The solution is to pay $50 a pop for EW's new engine. Nominal, but obligatory.

On the other hand, Altiverb has been great with its updates. Of late, there have been many free of charge to registered users, like their UB version and even the free standard version of A6 for registered A5 owners. I've gotta say that MOTU has been generous with their UB drivers and with the UB version of DP as part of the DP5 upgrade fee.

[dix]

Yep, if you're running any East West plugs you can't use the NI players on the Intel. The solution is to pay $50 a pop for EW's new engine. Nominal, but obligatory.

Nominal for one plugin, but if you have several, as I do, it starts to add up. The EW plugins will run in Kontakt, but of course Kontakt requires a $30 upgrade to UB.

btw NI has discontinued Intakt and Kompakt. They won't ever be UB.

From what I can gather, Waves does NOT charge for the UB updated versions. ...do they?

[davedempsey]

Grimepoch's last post pretty well does it for me - seems to confirm what I've suspected, which is that we won't be able to access the full potential of these octo machines. I'll buy the 2.66 box with lots of RAM and get all my software up to UB.
Truth is that I'll probably find it hard to stress that box with my current work practices and by the time I can, they'll be plenty more muscle available with improved throughput.
Thanks to all who helped get me off the fence.

[Frodo]

In case you haven't seen the post yet, Gabe just loaded 30 tracks of audio and 96 instances of Altiverb 6 into his 8-Core.

If that's not anything close to the full power of this particular machine, then put your seatbelts on. It's only going to get better with machines to come over the next year.

[davedempsey]

Yes, saw the post. I'm not sure what to make of it compared with the results grimepoch posted. The 96 Altiverbs, if I understand it correctly, is a static test and, impressive as it is, I'd like to hear if that 729.8% CPU usage is approachable in a realtime project situation.
I haven't ordered my Quad 2.66 yet as the WD 500 RE2 drives are currently not in stock with my supplier, so I think I'm climbing back on to the fence for a while

[monkey man]

I've been wondering about this, too. These quad machines *are* the quietest Macs, but they are also candidates for some of the warmest.

Anyone know how they'll handle a humid, 30 to 34C environment?
Would they be noisy in this situation?

Looking at moving to Townsville on the Great Barrier Reef at the end of the year.
I've publicly invited all Unicorns to join me, but no takers so far...
Maybe they all wanna run Mac Pros and figure they (the machines) won't stand the heat.
Then again, could it be the 'Cornies that're afraid of said warmth?

I'd like to think not. I always thought Unicorns had balls of titanium.
Correction - I know Unicorns have said metal balls.

[monkey man]

So RAM, new internal storage, PCIe cards, upgrading everything to UB....anything else? I keep thinking there's some other expense involved with this transition. Am I forgetting anything?
Thanks

From what I've read so far, only your loss of sanity.

Small price to pay for realtime mayhem, really.

[grimepoch]

Please take my example for what it was though, one persons usage of DP, which other flows and configuratations might benefit more.

My feeling is that if you are running at very small buffer sizes, like 64, the more processors are just not going to help because of other bottlenecks in the system. I also don't believe it is so much the transfer rate, just the fact you do not always get sustained speeds because of blocking operations.

If you are running at higher buffer settings AND using plugins that use a lot of CPU power (Reaktor) I think if you are a heavy user, you will get to use that other power. at 1024, there is a lot of room to allow the processors to do what they need in that time period.

So, if you want more overall power at the end of the day (mixing, mastering and polishing up) then I think with the octapus you could probably get that.

For me personally, given I have barely scratched the CPU surface with this project at 256, I know I made the right choice. My plugs are not limiting me anymore.