Waves and DP

[giles117]

In the meantime I will enjoy my AU enable WAVES plugins in DP 5.1 Regardless of which story waves decides to tell.

[davedempsey]

I started having no end of trouble after updating to DP5.1 on my Dual 1.25 G4. The rig had been problematic since I installed Raptor drives via a PCI SATA card - heat problems, crashes, kernal panics - so, I decided to remove the SATA drives and go back to IDEs with a complete fresh install.
I also decided to go straight back to DP 5.1 and try using Waves as AU.
Guess what...
so far with the Diamond bundle running as AU I've had zero problems. Further, I have a suspicion that pre-rendering might be working for these plugs.
I'll install the rest of my Waves plugs and start a mix on a 40+ track project, audio only.
At this time I've not installed any third party VIs and I've decided to install VIs on a different OS partition along with all the plugs - that way I can open an audio only version of mix ready tracks on the streamlined DP mix partition.
So it seems that giles117 is right and you don't necessarily have to use Waves MAS - by the end of this weekend I'll have brought the machine to it's knees and then we'll know the strength of it..... I'll return with the news.

[giles117]

Pre-rendering does work.... And quite nicely I might add.

[Phil Jeffers]

think once I make a move I'll go with MOTU. One reason I left Digi is the fact (and yes it is a fact) that their hardware is completely overpriced. And honestly, I've attempted to run a DIGI HD Rig with DP 5.01 at my friend's studio---what a nightmare---the 002 is more stable----and I'm sure a pci MOTU rig is completely stable.

but soon MOTU pci will be the way I'll go. I also have reassurance that I won't be left in the dust by MOTU---like DIGI has done to all of their customers with their PCI changes (along with Apple)--at least MOTU only wants $300 or so (not $8000)

and MOTU doesn't pull the cord on hardware that's only 3 years old (i.e. DIGI's 001) my upgrade from 001 to 002 cost me way too much money---I despsie DIGI's business practices--and I'm pleased with MOTU's way of doing things

MOTU are a very refreshing company. I feel happy to support them in any way possible. All their hardware is so flexible. Basically they don't get you over the barrel like Digidesign does, locking you into expensive upgrades every few years (or less). Viva La Motu!

[giles117]

Yessir the Digi 001 Obselesence program was a TOTAL rip. It's not like the audio hardware makes the program unuseable. Like you honestly need to upgrade I/O to add beat detection to a pc of SOFTWARE......

DIGI-CON!!!! and not the convention. LOL.

[tiptoesnake]

need to know how to split a stereo audio track

[giles117]

need to know how to split a stereo audio track

Huh????

If this is for real... DP records everything as split stereo files. You can merely grab the file you want and drag it to a mono track from the audio files folder.

If you import an interleaved stereo audio track into DP, it will be split into .l and .r files automatically.

[davedempsey]

In the meantime I will enjoy my AU enable WAVES plugins in DP 5.1 Regardless of which story waves decides to tell.........

Pre-rendering does work.... And quite nicely I might add.

OK, I know I stated I'd report back after installation of all my Waves plugs as AU and working up a 40+ track mix to the point of CPU max out - I lied, but only to the extent that I haven't been able to max it out yet!!!
Pre-rendering has enabled a lot more plugs than before and every Waves AU I use is working fine.
So its clear that anyone having trouble with their Waves plugs in DP5.1 should simply remove the MAS shells - the app loads up a lot faster without all those shells too.
I'm also getting into the MW EQ a lot more for this current mix project - I always thought it was great, but am now realizing it's better than that.

[PJ]

I think someone mentioned this before, but you can't open old projects (with Waves plugin) after removing the MAS shells. At least I can't. Though I found that it's possible to load old projects into new (Chunk) Project using Load command (=project is loaded, but Waves plugins are empty).
But it really seems that 'AU only Waves' is possible with DP now. And all plugs are working fine. Has this been possible with earlier DP 4.xx versions too?

[davedempsey]

I was able to open an old project with a couple of Waves plugs - it took quite a while to open (5 minutes or so) and came up with the missing plugs error. I clicked OK then replaced the plugs with the AU verion.
To do this I had already started DP, opened a project without Waves in place, closed it and then opened the older project from File menu.
I have a 5.1 project which is part of the current mix job, which has a lot of MAS Waves plugs already in place (started before my re-install) - next time I'm at the studio I'll attempt to open it - I expect a very long wait. It would take a lot less time just to start it again and import the audio from the clients data, but I think at this time it'll be more valuable for everyone to ascertain if the project can be opened to the point of missing plug error.

[davedempsey]

Further on the Waves as AU issue.... DP just successfully opened a 5.1 project which was 38 tracks and had 18 Waves MAS plugs including some heavy hitters like LINEQ. LINMB and L3Multi. It took about 12 minutes but had failed and crashed during the first attempt after 5 minutes. The really interesting point being that it only reported 1 missing plug and the other Waves plugs appeared in place as AUs with the correct parameter settings in place.
Next is, therefore, to import an older pre 5 project from backup and see what happens trying to open it.

[HCMarkus]

Thaks for your efforts here guys. Having recently moved to DP 5.1, I noticed the MAS Waves issue. Although I was glad to see we can use the AU version of the Waves plugs with DP, it does send a shiver down my spine as I anticipate opening old projects created while I had functioning MAS Waves plugs. Like most who use Waves, the plugs handle the lion's share of my processing. It is good to see, however, that the Pre-Rendering option is no longer grayed out for Waves plugs running as AUs.

A note for others moving from MAS to Waves: Trashing DP preferences after removing the MAS Waveshells (as decribed earlier in this topic) forces DP to re-scan its plugs and allows them to run as AU's. The scanning takes quite a while... Gold, RenaissanceMaxx, Doubler and Tune Lite (which I now have to figure out how to use with Re-Wire) took about 20 minutes total to scan. Then, when the first project is opened, there is another scan that takes a few seconds for each version of each plug (Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q6, etc). Also, the AU versions will not open when instantiated unless the track they are instantiated to has a valid audio output assigned. Be sure you select the appropriate Hardware after trashing preferences, as the system will probably default to "built-in".

The Import approach to getting old DP projects into the new workflow, as noted by PJ, looks the most promising... I was trying to open some old projects late last night without success. Admittedly, I haven't the patience exhibited by DavedD. I'll be experimenting with Importing so when I really NEED to open an old project I won't be treading an uncharted path as an anxious client wonders if I have a clue what I'm doing.

I may reinstall my System/Applications backup from when I installed 5.0 and 5.01 to see if MAS Waves works. With my system as it now stands, MAS Waves is broken for both 5.01 and 5.1. I hadn't noticed a lack of functionality before I went to 5.1... maybe I was working with 5.0.

[PJ]

It is also possible to keep both MAS and AU shells in use. I'm not sure if this 100% crash free method, but this is fantastic: you can open older projects and use AUs in new projects! Waves appears now twice in the plugin menu. Upper version is AU and lower is MAS. Example:
LinMB (s) (stereo) is AU
LinMB s (stereo) is MAS.


I just really hope that Motu won't cut this AU option away from us Waves users. Somehow I feel this haven't always been possible. I'm sure they want to keep MAS going, but when it seems that AU is working better, I can't see the reason to stick with MAS/Waves anymore.

[HCMarkus]

PJ, I plan to keep a disc partition with DP 5.0 and Waves and Auto Tune MAS to allow opening older projects easily. I have too long a plug list already, with Q1-10, etc.

I tried the IMPORT method you used, and was able to open a project with Waves MAS plugs into 5.1 running Waves AU only. I was unable to open the same project directly into DP. Importing the template I had slaved over got me right to where I want to be. I had painstakingly set up BFD Multiple Outs with ReWire, so importing Bundles and the template Chunk saved me a bundle of time!

I got Waves Tune Light to work, too. Had to create an Aux Track fed with Waves ReWire to make it lock. Tune still performs a little strange, as its internal clock just rolls along until DP is playing, at which time it locks right up to DP. I wonder what will happen when Tune rolls along for more than its 10 minute maximum duration? Time, literally, will tell.

Auto Tune MAS would not work in 5.1 once I converted the Waves to AU, so I moved to AT AU as well. It seems to work perfectly. The MAS version has always been troublesome. Perhaps life is now to be better in many ways.

I believe I have noticed an improvement in idle CPU load running the AU versions, but when the tracks are playing, things seem about the same. The pre-rendering may help some.

I still have some hair left. Its time to see if this will really work under real-world conditions. I just want to get the platform stable so I can wallow in the misery of my now "aged" PPC Quad for a couple of years... JK.

And why the heck should MOTU keep MAS alive? Let it die, if it means we get to use plugs that are more robust, not to mention pre-renderable. I do not think MOTU will ever lock users out of AU, as many plugs and VI's are AU-only.

- Markus

[David Polich]

I'm starting to agree - I guess that MOTU more or less has to retain MAS to allow users to save back to a certain version. I do think they could drop the earliest save-able version to DP 2.7 - maybe even 3.0.