DP 5 stuck MIDI notes / MIDI bombs still there

[tommymandel]

New freeze/crash. Just 2 MIDI tracks, though there were unused Audio tracks in the Project. 2 recording passes into a 1 minute session, I noticed that the Playback bar in the Audio Performance window was going solid red FOR THE COUNTOFF. (1 bar of 6/4 using MIDI, not audio click.) Then DP5 unexpectedly quit, leaving stuck notes, including one (on my old SD-1) that wouldn't be Command-1-silenced when I relaunched.For the record, all my system MIDI connections were connected, including a SycoLogic MIDI Patcher from the paleolithic era, and a JLCooper MSB16/20. I was writing MIDI from a Roland XV-88. Last "clue": it was my first launch since using the bundled MOTU "Use this to adjust timing" sequence (with the MIDI and audio snare tracks) to tweak recording and playback delay parameters in the Configure Hardware>FineTune Audio Timing Window, and having changed the values in the two fields there in that previous launch...

[danthebirdman]

Wanted to post this-
I've had DP5 for almost 2 weeks and today with no logical explanation (no pun intended) I started to get some stuck notes. It is only with one plug in and it is from a small company- Nusofting- a harmonium plug in called Peti.
Seems to be the only one sticking. Strange.

D

[bartmc]

Chiming in on the stuck notes thread:

Since upgrading to DP5, I'm getting stuck notes for the first time. OK, I've had a few over the last 20 years or so, but in v5 I'm getting them every time I work. It's real intermittent, too.

I've installed v5 on 2 systems, both G5's running 10.4.6. One has some MIDI modules running off an MTP AV, the other is VI only. I can work for a while - maybe 30 minutes, maybe 5 minutes - without sticking, and then suddenly there they are, stuck. They stick with all the various click/countoff options, cycle/not cycle, Core MIDI Patch Thru or not. They stick when I'm using only the new Motu VI's. They stick with no VI's. This is some sticky stuff, man!

Anybody figures this out, let us all know.

bart

[waterstrum]

The stuck notes are back for me too.

I had some clients knocking my MIDI system.
MOTU used to mean great MIDI.
This is embarrassing for me and MOTU.

There must be an answer to this.

[Shooshie]

What version of your MIDI interface software are you using? I'm using Clockworks 1.51 with a MIDI Time Piece AV (USB). Do you have a MTP? If so, do you have any special routing going on in it? Anything that could create a loop? Maybe in conjunction with MIDI Patch Thru?

I know this is pretty basic, but there has to be an explanation for the stuck notes. The fact that I and many other people almost never get them tells me that there is a difference in the settings on our computers/hardware. It has to be something like that. These things aren't mysterious; they're just hard to see. There's some setting that is tripping up a lot of people unwittingly. We just need to figure out what it is.

I don't see how it could be a shortcoming in DP itself. If it was that simple, we'd all be getting them. I think everyone needs to start at the beginning of their MIDI trail, and examine every single preference, setting, filter, routing, etc., along the way to the final output. There has to be an explanation, and it's just going to take some diligent soul a lot of patience and time to find it.


Shooshie

[boonier]

What version of your MIDI interface software are you using? I'm using Clockworks 1.51 with a MIDI Time Piece AV (USB). Do you have a MTP? If so, do you have any special routing going on in it? Anything that could create a loop? Maybe in conjunction with MIDI Patch Thru?

I know this is pretty basic, but there has to be an explanation for the stuck notes. The fact that I and many other people almost never get them tells me that there is a difference in the settings on our computers/hardware. It has to be something like that. These things aren't mysterious; they're just hard to see. There's some setting that is tripping up a lot of people unwittingly. We just need to figure out what it is.

I don't see how it could be a shortcoming in DP itself. If it was that simple, we'd all be getting them. I think everyone needs to start at the beginning of their MIDI trail, and examine every single preference, setting, filter, routing, etc., along the way to the final output. There has to be an explanation, and it's just going to take some diligent soul a lot of patience and time to find it.


Shooshie

I never used to have stuck notes until the last two tracks i've been working on..

I'm on 10.4.5 (reluctant to go to 10.4.6 at the moment) and DP 4.6.1. One day it just appeared. Funnily enough when this thread started in earnest.

Is it to do with the current combination of DP and osx? SO, not necessarily DP's fault but something Apple changed but made incompatible with dp from 10.4.5 onwards?.

We are at the mercy of software manufacturers

[pencilina]

Hi,

Some troubleshooting thoughts, maybe some of these are obvious. Just trying to give back and be helpful. IMHO, I don't think the problem is specific to a os version. I had stuck notes with the 10.3.x that came with my g5. I haven't had to reboot now in 10.3.9 or any significant problems since DP 4.12, specifically since I created another user and started using Macaroni. I really think its good to get into the voodoo aspect first. It seems like clean (99.9% a waste of time IMNHO unless the problem is viral) or re-installs aren't doing much for people with bad stuck notes maybe someone getting a lot of stuck notes should try creating a new user account and/or using Macaroni and see how it goes. I should mention that occassionally (once a week) I get a stuck note as I always have with any computer setup I've ever used used. I might get a stuck note if I up/down arrow through devices while holding notes down. What I do is usually move the scrubber back and forth a few times until a note off gets sent and all is well.

Here's a comprehensive list of every thing I would do if I was still having this problem. So what happens if you:

-Create a new user? (you might have to re-install DP for that user)

-Scrub over or play the offending note/s?

-If It's an external box sticking. Go into audio MIDI setup and go into "test" mode and click on the offending device until maybe the stuck note goes off. Does it?

-Installed any new plug-ins recently, demos, freeware, ones you shouldn't have?

-Unplug your MIDI interface and plug it back in?

-Use a different usb port or shuffle where your USB devices are plugged in.

-Use Macaroni and let it do all of its business?

-Use MIDI Monitor to watch your port activity and notice if you find anything weird. It can run in the backround and timestamps all events. Eg. a bad MIDI cc pot clogging up your MIDI data stream with some junk info. or a box not sending note offs.

-Start saying really nice complimentary things to your computer and pretend its a sick pet or child that needs your attention? (I'm totally serious about this)




With troubleshooting problems that seem to "suddenly" appear I've found that its really important to consider what's changed - a new little stupid variable. Usually its something that I realize later when I'm less pissed off about the problem (the being nice to the computer thing helps here)


Let's see what happens. Maybe a solution will start to reveal itself.

good luck to all

-b

PS now I'm afraid my notes are gonna be sticking like hell, ha ha ha

[markwayne]

As someone who went around and around with this and lots of general MIDI sloppiness in DP a while back, I can relate to my brothers and sisters afflicted by MIDI evil. I can also say that DP handles MIDI in a different way than any other app I'm familiar with (Logic, Live, Cubase, Reason).

I'm pretty certain that there is an added buffer for MIDI events in DP that probably has something to do with MIDI Time Stamping or sample-accurate sync or who knows what. I'm convinced that this layer of complexity is DP's Achille's heel when it comes to MIDI. In my experience DP is very vulnerable to problems that my other DAWs seem to shrug off.

I tried getting help from MOTU tech support on this issue. They told me they were going to try and duplicate the issue but then ended up just asking me to send sequences with notes that were sticking. I told them that I doubted there would be anything to gain from looking at my sequences since any sequence - even the DP demo - could stick at any time. I sent some anyway and received no response.

Finally, I spent some time recently trying some things. Here's what has worked in my case: I set DP's thread priority to low, filtered all MIDI data save notes and controllers from my MTPav, rolled back my MTP drivers, and started doing the terminal (sudo periodic daily, weekly, monthly) dance whenever my Mac seemed distracted from its primary task. This has resulted in a servicable DP 4.61 on my Mac. However, some of these steps strike me as extreme (ie. filtering all sysex and taking CPU cycles away from MAS.)

The important fact, however, is that none of this makes any difference to Logic, Live, Reaon or Cubase. They worked fine before and they work the same now. Exactly the same! I don't even get the pleasure of getting any performance gains with the other apps. However, now I have a functionly crippled MIDI setup just to make DP happy. Not optimal in my opinion.

My conclusion? On certain rigs DP makes you jump through a number of hoops that other DAWs don't because of some strange MIDI processing that's always in the pipeline (like some virtual MIDI cataylitc convertor) in DP. I have also noticed in my many email exchanges with other MIDI sufferers that these problems seem to be exacerbated by the presence of certain synths made by Kurzweil, Roland and Spectrasonics.

it remains a mystery,
Wayne

[Shooshie]

Markwayne, congratulations on getting a working setup for DP.

Shooshie

[markwayne]

congratulations on getting a working setup for DP.

Thanx man. I take a certain pride in beating the odds.

In all honesty, I am enjoying having DP as a viable option for sequencing again. Performer and I have fifteen years of history and there are some projects where it's just the best fit.

That said, MOTU should be very nice to James. The resources he has seen fit to make available, and this community in general trump anything the other DAWs have and represent the single, biggest advantage DP has at this point.

Wayne

[chrispick]

That said, MOTU should be very nice to James. The resources he has seen fit to make available, and this community in general trump anything the other DAWs have and represent the single, biggest advantage DP has at this point.

We should all be nice to James.

Might I suggest a bucket of Extra Crispy.

Seriously though, Unicornation is about as kickass a BB as anyone can hope for. Metal on, Mr. Steele!

[Shooshie]

rolled back my MTP drivers

Mark, Are you saying that you went back to a previous version? I've been suspicious for some time now that some of the stuck MIDI note issues might be a driver issue. I do not recall what the latest version of the MTP drivers is, currently, but I'm using 1.51. A while back I installed the latest round of everything, as I have done for years, religiously, but instead of working it sent my system into havoc. I immediately replaced the new drivers with all my old ones. Since I basically just wiped all MOTU drivers off my disk and reinstalled with installers I'd saved, I do not know which of those are current drivers and which are not. But I have been using the same drivers for PCI-424, Firewire, and MIDI Time Piece now for probably a year. I think the incident above took place either late last year or early this year.

Could that be why so many people are having trouble?

What version are you using?

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Well, I'm all confused now. I checked my drivers, and I cannot tell if they are the old versions I was using, or if DP5 installed new ones. For what it's worth, here are my drivers and their versions:

••• MOTU PCI Audio: v. 1.0.8, created 4/25/05, modified 1/1/06
••• MOTU FireWire Audio: v. 1.2.5, created 4/28/05, modified 1/3/06
••• MOTU MIDI Driver: v. 1.3.1, created 4/12/05, modified 1/3/06
••• Clockworks (app) v. 1.51, created 12/2/03, modified 1/1/06
••• MOTU Firewire Console (app), v. 1.1, created 4/5/05, modified 1/3/06
••• CueMix Console (app) v.1.41, created 11/21/03, modified 1/1/06

Those modification dates must be from when I reinstalled these after the nasty episode installing the newest drivers from MOTU. In which case, these would not have been installed by DP5, which means I'm still using the drivers that have been so stable for me.

If it interests anyone, I have very few problems with my setup, and these may or may not be the reason why. If you're having a lot of trouble, you might want to go to the MOTU site and download the drivers that match the dates on the drivers I listed up above. When you've exhausted all your possibilities, it wouldn't hurt to give this one a try.


Shooshie

[markwayne]

What version are you using?

I rolled back my MTP drivers to 1.24d.

I, like you, experienced all kinds of strange problems the last time I updated my MOTU drivers.

Wayne

[tommymandel]

Shooshie:
•••My ClockWorks app is also version 1.51, and it was created and modified 3/22/06, which seems be before I installed DP5. (but it was modified 4/21/06)
•••My MOTU PCI Audio Console was created and modified 3/24/06, but the Install MOTU PCI OSX v.1.08 Package that presumably installed it was created 4/28/05, v.1.5, like yours.
•••I have *2* com.motu.DigitalPerformer.plist's: one created 4/29/06 in <my username>Library>Preferences, and another one created 3/23/06, in <my user name>Library>Safe Preferences
plus
com.motu.DLSSoftSynth.plist from 4/22/06, plus com.motu.ExpansionBoardSetup.plist from 3/23/06, plus com.motu.FMConfigConvert.plist from 4/22/06 (which saved my butt, as manually recreating my big studio set-up in AudioMidiSetup was totally bogging the System down, but the FreeMidiConfigConvert app included with both 4.61 and 5, made it work smoothly.) plus com.motu.pci.config.console.plist from 3/24/06
•••My MOTU MIDI Driver.plugin is 1.3.2 (NEWER than yours) created 1/27/06, Modified 4/21/06

•••Since I'm using a Digi002R for audio input now, because my old pre-24bit 2408 was PCI and I haven't traded up to a PCI-express; I also seem to have MOTUAudioFeeder, a Pro Tools Plug-In, created and modified 3/8/06, version 1.0x0,(the .dpm package, itself installed 3/29/06, with PT LE v. 7.0 or 7.01. NOTE- my MIDI is still being handled by the MOTU MicroExpress USB interface.

Since I don't have a MOTU FireWire audio interface (wish I did!) I don't have any file with "MOTU FireWire Audio" in its name installed on this computer. Even though I can't use it, I do have the newish CueMix Console app installed, created and modified 3/24/06, curiously showing no version number (a version virgin?) and the old unusable PCI-324 CueMix Console Classic app, v.1.5 created, modified and last opened 10/13/99, with a very low-rez icon, from my v.3.11 OS9 days.
No crashes or stuck notes lately. (since the one documented earlier in this thread.

Incidentally DP5 says it was created 4/06/06 and modified 4/21/06. version 5.0

Sorry for the bloated post here, but it seemed to include info that you were requesting from the 'nation.