MOTUnation.com

HobbyCore wrote:

OldTimey wrote:MOTU: NO ABSOLUTE GRID AT THE EXPENSE OF RELATIVE GRID

thank you

see you next time,

OldTimey

There's no need for it to be 'one or the other'.

Other softwares implement both just fine.

As long as it's not executed in the manner of Logic Pro. I would have to find a different DAW, and I don't mean that in an exaggerated, reactionary, way.

Funny thing, the only time I use amp/stompbox plugins is for live use... when I'm in MainStage. So I have NO USE for these things in DP, and because their all MAS, I can't use them outside of DP! Arrrgggg!

Altauria wrote:

HobbyCore wrote:

OldTimey wrote:MOTU: NO ABSOLUTE GRID AT THE EXPENSE OF RELATIVE GRID

thank you

see you next time,

OldTimey

There's no need for it to be 'one or the other'.

Other softwares implement both just fine.

As long as it's not executed in the manner of Logic Pro. I would have to find a different DAW, and I don't mean that in an exaggerated, reactionary, way.

What is wrong with how it is implemented in Logic?

HobbyCore wrote:

Altauria wrote:

HobbyCore wrote: There's no need for it to be 'one or the other'.

Other softwares implement both just fine.

As long as it's not executed in the manner of Logic Pro. I would have to find a different DAW, and I don't mean that in an exaggerated, reactionary, way.

What is wrong with how it is implemented in Logic?

It's the overall hierarchy of 'objects'. The treatment of regions are very static and inflexible, as if it's forcing me to deal with buckets of objects that don't necessarily need to be organized; and yet, their arrange window does not communicate that same sense of rigidness. It's like building a brick wall in outer space. I feel like I'm a cook whose mise en place is in a lock-box, placed in separate corners of the kitchen.

To be sure I have actually asked Logic-users to explain the principles of their regions, and even explain how to simply select areas within time. The only answers I get are, at best, explained in terms of what Logic does while ignoring the original question, or at worst...myopic (same as the best I guess, ha).

I wish I could be more concrete than that, but there's a level of freedom and organic music making to the way data (I mostly deal in MIDI, mind you) exists in DP, that does not appear to in Logic. Generally speaking with Logic, it's as if a group of linear-sequential thinkers came together and tried to think in the abstract. It's only abstract to linear thinkers.

The only way I would find how Logic handles regions useful is if I were making phat beats.

Sorry, that was probably more of a rant than an answer to your question.

Altauria wrote:

HobbyCore wrote: What is wrong with how it is implemented in Logic?

It's the overall hierarchy of 'objects'. The treatment of regions are very static and inflexible, as if it's forcing me to deal with buckets of objects that don't necessarily need to be organized; and yet, their arrange window does not communicate that same sense of rigidness. It's like building a brick wall in outer space. I feel like I'm a cook whose mise en place is in a lock-box, placed in separate corners of the kitchen.

To be sure I have actually asked Logic-users to explain the principles of their regions, and even explain how to simply select areas within time. The only answers I get are, at best, explained in terms of what Logic does while ignoring the original question, or at worst...myopic (same as the best I guess, ha).

I wish I could be more concrete than that, but there's a level of freedom and organic music making to the way data (I mostly deal in MIDI, mind you) exists in DP, that does not appear to in Logic. Generally speaking with Logic, it's as if a group of linear-sequential thinkers came together and tried to think in the abstract. It's only abstract to linear thinkers.

The only way I would find how Logic handles regions useful is if I were making phat beats.

Sorry, that was probably more of a rant than an answer to your question.

+1
+1000!

While that may not explain what Logic does, it certainly describes the way I feel when I try to use it! Logic's tools are just too coarse for fine editing. That's where DP happens to excel. If I were owner of MOTU and had the money, I'd get the programmers together and go through it, adding dozens and dozens of features, and lots of small tweaks to existing ones to come up with what I might call the perfect DAW, but the next person might not agree. Still, if MOTU added even a dozen or two of the tweaks I want, I think many people would never complain again about DP. I know what frustrates me, and it's pretty similar to what frustrates everyone else. I just don't complain about it much, because there are usually ways to get around it, and rather than waste my time complaining about something that might scare off a prospective DP user (needlessly, I might add), it's easier to explain how to make it happen, even if it takes a few more moves than what we all would prefer. So, I try to show how you do things in DP, but DP is far from finished, in my opinion.

Shooshie

I haven't found anything officially released by MOTU... so I finally got around to posting my footage of it. It's rough and I skipped the details on MX4. Not everything is there, but most of it. Enjoy.

Shooshie wrote: While that may not explain what Logic does, it certainly describes the way I feel when I try to use it! Logic's tools are just too coarse for fine editing. That's where DP happens to excel. If I were owner of MOTU and had the money, I'd get the programmers together and go through it, adding dozens and dozens of features, and lots of small tweaks to existing ones to come up with what I might call the perfect DAW, but the next person might not agree. Still, if MOTU added even a dozen or two of the tweaks I want, I think many people would never complain again about DP. I know what frustrates me, and it's pretty similar to what frustrates everyone else. I just don't complain about it much, because there are usually ways to get around it, and rather than waste my time complaining about something that might scare off a prospective DP user (needlessly, I might add), it's easier to explain how to make it happen, even if it takes a few more moves than what we all would prefer. So, I try to show how you do things in DP, but DP is far from finished, in my opinion.

Shooshie

I agree, though I'm actually surprisingly likely to have a smaller list than most of you.
Almost everything I want in DP is improvements on what's already there. I would like it if you could load both AU and VST plug ins and have them be able to be recognized as either instead of Kontakt, Kontakt, in the plug in list for instance, but that's not a huge request. I would like to be able to select, glue and cut parsed sections in the Tracks Overview like Logic, Live etc. I do think this is the only area where it makes sense to have basically a little more object oriented MIDI. I wouldn't want it to interfere with the MIDI editor or the way MID is handled in the Sequence editor, that's actually IMO the part of Logic where it gets annoying, having to select both 'objects' in order to see them in the MIDI window... It should only be a function of the parsing in the Tracks Overview, another way to organize and move blocks of data, and it shouldn't interfere with the MIDI editing in other windows much the way phrase parsing doesn't now.

None of this IMO is as important as weird little improvements to the actual DAW elements though. I would like to be able to set up a key command for grid resolutions in TO, Se

James Steele wrote:I haven't found anything officially released by MOTU... so I finally got around to posting my footage of it. It's rough and I skipped the details on MX4. Not everything is there, but most of it. Enjoy.

I left my comments (perhaps way too many) here.

Shooshie

Thank you, James, for posting your video. I've been looking forward to seeing Dave's presentation.

Mike

Yeah, thanks James. I think the one feature that I will like is the automation lanes. I've been wanting something like that but didn't know how they would implement it. We'll see how it fits into peoples work flows (once we get it). I think the tracks wizard is kind of cool too, but I don't know how much time it will actually save - more of a luxury than a necessity.

Phil

Altauria wrote: As long as it's not executed in the manner of Logic Pro. I would have to find a different DAW, and I don't mean that in an exaggerated, reactionary, way.

What is wrong with how it is implemented in Logic?

It's the overall hierarchy of 'objects'. The treatment of regions are very static and inflexible, as if it's forcing me to deal with buckets of objects that don't necessarily need to be organized; and yet, their arrange window does not communicate that same sense of rigidness. It's like building a brick wall in outer space. I feel like I'm a cook whose mise en place is in a lock-box, placed in separate corners of the kitchen.

To be sure I have actually asked Logic-users to explain the principles of their regions, and even explain how to simply select areas within time. The only answers I get are, at best, explained in terms of what Logic does while ignoring the original question, or at worst...myopic (same as the best I guess, ha).

I wish I could be more concrete than that, but there's a level of freedom and organic music making to the way data (I mostly deal in MIDI, mind you) exists in DP, that does not appear to in Logic. Generally speaking with Logic, it's as if a group of linear-sequential thinkers came together and tried to think in the abstract. It's only abstract to linear thinkers.

The only way I would find how Logic handles regions useful is if I were making phat beats.

Sorry, that was probably more of a rant than an answer to your question.

I don't understand at all what 'how Logic handles regions' has to do with there being an optional absolute grid. I must really be missing something here.

Considering how much I loved their La2a emulation... the 1176 addition does seem very cool to me.

I'm also excited about automation lanes.

All things considered, it does look like an OK upgrade.. if they just fix a few minor things that people have bene whining about for years.

And as long as some bugs in DP 8.07 are fixed!

Damn!! I hope there's an option to reduce the size of those panning knobs. I find them so unattractive! But thats just me.

Tesionman wrote:Damn!! I hope there's an option to reduce the size of those panning knobs. I find them so unattractive! But thats just me.

Should be able to just change the theme.