i7user wrote:iGirl wrote:Recording different tracks of audio in separate passes is cheating.
Punching in/out to fix something is cheating.
Using MIDI to manipulate notes in any way is cheating.
If you can't do it all perfectly in one pass - you're just no good and shouldn't be allowed to make or record music.
Sorry but in the recording studio, anything is fair game. I can't hardly comprehend any position that sets rigid limits to what's acceptable in ART. What are we - all robot and clones now? Try some progress, creativity and invention. BRING ON THE VARI-SPEED. In this case it's not even progress - it's going backwards 30 years or so to recapture a classic recording technique and certain "sound" that's hard to re-create digitally.
It just a very esoteric thing... it's like a suit in the closet... some wear one every day others NEVER do! Let people state their opinions please... you like it and that's cool. There's ways of accomplishing anything if your creative and have the chops. If one needs an instant gratification GUI to do it, no DP doesn't have it but there's ways of doing it with some ingenuity if you are in dying need.
Some of the qualities of tape vari-speed just can not be accomplished in real life, i don't see how you can argue that. The qualities i love using my tape decks towards this effect are the ones that are most unreal. keeping pitch and tempo changes unrelated is something entirely different. very useful, for sure, and i love that it's possible now, but it's got nothing to do with vari-speed effect.
i couldn't even read this entire thread. i'd try and then every once in a while, it got hard to believe that some of the sentiments were for real. it seems so simple to me. it's an effect. like delay or compression.
i think any arguments about this are always gonna be forced to exaggeration and putting words and motivations in other's mouths becuz there really isn't an argument.
it's just an effect. it's not robotic or unimaginative not to use it. and it's also not a shortcut and doesn't reveal any lack of musicianship to employ it. only a matter of aesthetics.
one of the things that i love about it is the happy accident factor. an example is recently i had a recording taped in a room with a piano tuned a bit high. i tuned the other instruments to match this, then later decided to go down a whole step on the song as well. but i liked the feel of the old takes and relative changes in tempo as the song built up, so i dumped it track for track onto my tascam reel to reel, just to use as a guide. i then pitched it down to the new key and happily noticed that the slower tempo suited the song. then i dumped back into DP expecting to now use the old recording as purely scratch takes. the slowed down quality of the guitar and drums was too wicked tho. i liked that they sounded a little slow and messed up. you can't tape either guitar or drums to capture that sound cuz it doesn't physically happen on earth. it's impossible, but it sounded rad. so i kept those both and retracked around them. i even kept some background vocals mixed real low cuz it lent something to the recording that i didn't expect. those are the things that make me happiest in the course of recording my songs. i was just lucky that the new tempo suited me as well.
so even outside of deliberate use of vari-speed as an effect, u can get accidents like that. i could've redone the whole song in a lower key with my old faster tempo. that could've led to other happy accidents. maybe even better ones. so there's no room to say one way was better than the other. there's only one way to have done things and it turns out that's always the way that u did them, so it's infuriating to have tried to read this thread.
there's arguments like - this x thing is more poorly made than this y thing becuz here are the reasons.... or x thing is a bad match for y thing cuz they work against one another intrinsically and so on.... but use of varispeed is not like that.
if i have to fall on any side of this non-argument, non-issue, it'd be for the inclusion of as many effects as possible. cuz i don't have to use them if i don't want to. so what do i care if they got gorilla-female(middle inverse)? if i don't like it, then i ignore it.
if it turns out gorilla-female(middle inverse) is the one thing i need and it's missing then i'm screwed.
i actually don't understand how the hand time stretch isn't basically vari-speed. doesn't it rudimentarily work on the same principles? it's just not usable like tape is for a whole song. that's what is meant yes? or is something else a part of vari-speed that i've misdefined for myself?
i would love for DP to have a function exactly like i can use my tape decks for, but to say there's no vari-speed is what makes me wonder if i'm not understanding part of this.
(i really apologize too, if any of this has been made clear, i really couldn't read this whole thread, and maybe the posters immediately before me couldn't stand to either.)
