MOTUnation.com

Any observations on efficiency?

I was messing around on the old (2010?) iMac with the 30 day trial version of DP 11 using a guitar through a Lexicon Alpha, and noticed I could track with a buffer of 16 samples, which made latency unnoticeable. I don't recall being able to do that sort of thing before on this system.

The downside is DP 11 recorded exactly what I played, so no improvements there.

bayswater wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:40 pm

dix wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:31 pm Do you mean Playlists a replacement for songs? Anyway....I was wondering the same. If not a replacement for Songs then what is Playlists? A live performance tool I guess?

I need to learn more I suppose. I saw a video of someone using the Clips feature to cue up a live performance, but one of the things they did is set up DP to record the whole thing. So I could use that to create a song from components but would want to be able have different clips or chunks or whatever they are, to maintain their associated tempos when they overlap or play at the same time.

So the downside to DP (and Logics) implementation of the Clips feature of Live and Bitwig is that neither include separate tempos as a part of the Clip window.

To quickly explain, in Live you can fire off all the clips in a Session slot and the Session Slot can control the tempo of Live. So you put the tempo into the name of the Session Slot and it changes the global tempo. This is how you can use the Session View in Live to have a whole set of songs that you can fire in any order.

DP and Logic do not have Session firing slots that can change the global tempo.

It was one of the major reasons I didn't jump to using Logic for some things because Clips in Logic don't change the tempo, so there's no real elegant way of doing a live set without using the arrangement with all songs mapped out in it. Comparatively in DP you can use Chunks to have every song load into its own timeline with its own markers for jumping around in the song when practicing etc.

IMO though, Chunks is a superior method, because of being able to access a timeline for the song with markers set up etc. This is just better when rehearsing, sure it's cool firing Session slots, but moving around in 3-7 minute clips is awkward at best. IMO Clips are better for sorting through an arrangement. Instruments can be loaded into the open sequence instead of V-Racks which you would want to do for the Song Window, so you can tyake advantage of track automation etc.

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:47 pm So you put the tempo into the name of the Session Slot and it changes the global tempo. This is how you can use the Session View in Live to have a whole set of songs that you can fire in any order.

I haven't used Live and I'm not sure what the feature your description does.

I'd like something similar to what Dr T's KCS did decades ago. You could create up to 99 sequences (or chunks or songs, or whatever you want to call them). Each had its own tempo track. You could start any of them whenever you wanted with a keyboard shortcut or MIDI trigger, and they played according to their own tempo for as many loops as you specified. Not a session tempo, or the tempo of a master sequence, the one at the top of the list, or the one most recently started.

I suppose one downside is difficulty having the various parts tightly coordinated. Dr. T solved that problem by letting any sequence start any other sequence at a predetermined point.

It is not likely you would use all this, except with purely exploratory music (and there were randomizers to support that), but just being able to have independent tempos would be nice.

I must be the only one here on an M1 Mac using VSL virtual instruments. Thank God I ran the 30-day demo before plunking down cash! DP11 will not recognise Vienna Symphony's MAS nor VST plug-ins. You will get an error message the first time you run a project which contained them indicating a long list of the instances which cannot be located. The only option is to re-assign them — one by one — to Vienna's AU plug-in.

If you revert to DP10 and open that same project, you'll get a bit of a scare to receive the same warning, but fortunately in this case DP only disabled the MAS plug-in. Re-enabling brings joy back to the world.

NOTE: If one is a glutton for punishment, one can force DP11 to run in Rosetta mode ("Get Info" in the Finder) and it will recognise the MAS/VST plug-ins. The Map Articulation only seems to work with Synchron Player using the VST plug-in which is another hassle if you've been using the MAS version all this while.

If I had paid MOTU $195 for their advertised compatibility with Apple Silicon...after the wait from November 20th without a peep from them... I would not want to be on the receiving end of THAT phone call.

gulliverity wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:59 pm I must be the only one here on an M1 Mac using VSL virtual instruments. Thank God I ran the 30-day demo before plunking down cash! DP11 will not recognise Vienna Symphony's MAS nor VST plug-ins. You will get an error message the first time you run a project which contained them indicating a long list of the instances which cannot be located. The only option is to re-assign them — one by one — to Vienna's AU plug-in.

If you revert to DP10 and open that same project, you'll get a bit of a scare to receive the same warning, but fortunately in this case DP only disabled the MAS plug-in. Re-enabling brings joy back to the world.

NOTE: If one is a glutton for punishment, one can force DP11 to run in Rosetta mode ("Get Info" in the Finder) and it will recognise the MAS/VST plug-ins. The Map Articulation only seems to work with Synchron Player using the VST plug-in which is another hassle if you've been using the MAS version all this while.

If I had paid MOTU $195 for their advertised compatibility with Apple Silicon...after the wait from November 20th without a peep from them... I would not want to be on the receiving end of THAT phone call.

Last I checked VEP was Intel only. Not AS compatible. Has it been updated?

[EDIT] Confirmed. Vienna Ensemble Pro is running in Rosetta 2 only, so you may be correct that DP11 may not be compatible with Apple Silicon in this regard. Have you tried the AU version of the Vienna plugin? ...although no matter what, asking a universal app to get along with a non-universal app seems dicey.

How is a a 3rd party plugin's incompatibility with AS suddenly MOTU's problem?

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:04 pm How is a a 3rd party plugin's incompatibility with AS suddenly MOTU's problem?

MOTU is charging $195 for AS compatibility. If this had been a 10.x update (or a parallel AS beta release along the lines of what Adobe and Blackmagic did), I would have rolled with it.

Considering the number of times DP11 has crashed in the past few days (running in Rosetta 2), I dodged a bullet. Happy to stick with DP10 for now. Your mileage may vary.

Hopefully the new "incompatibilities" DP 11 is having with Raven, Vienna, and whichever others there may be, will be resolved soon and not Mar what seems to be a great release.

For me, there has alway been a "System-Philosophy bug" at MOTU itself, that being-failure to "play nice" with some 3rd party plug ins. That means, 3rd party plug ins that work in a majority of other DAWs, with DP being the "outlier".

Respectfully-....For me, "DP 11.5" would be a re-assesment of 3rd party functionality, interfacing, and various fixes in this area. It Isn't "glamorous", but boy could it make some stuff work nicer, and DP being any sort of negative "outlier" is something that needs to end. I want to see DP #3 in DAWs, a reasonable wish I think. It's #1 with me

So there's the Ring and the Yang of it all for me.
In general, happy to see some really nice improvements. MOTU!

And a little worried about how long and how many 3rd party issues are forthcoming.

I was thinking of going to 11 and just putting up with Slate issues for now. But add Vienna to that and I have to pass until fixed. Any additional data on Vienna or Raven has my attention for sure.

gulliverity wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:49 pm

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:04 pm How is a a 3rd party plugin's incompatibility with AS suddenly MOTU's problem?

MOTU is charging $195 for AS compatibility. If this had been a 10.x update (or a parallel AS beta release along the lines of what Adobe and Blackmagic did), I would have rolled with it.

Considering the number of times DP11 has crashed in the past few days (running in Rosetta 2), I dodged a bullet. Happy to stick with DP10 for now. Your mileage may vary.

Right. MOTU should have re-engineers VEP so it works with AS. Clearly nothing to do the the copyright holder.

MOTU is charging $195 for AS compatibility

The MAS version of VSL is made by Vienna btw. Maybe that’s the confusion here. DP11 and all it’s plug-ins are compatible with AS. The heads up is appreciated though. I’m coveting an AS Mac, but keep forgetting it may be awhile before everything I need is ready for pro work. It’s good to know DP is compatible at least.

What is VSL? It sounds like we're talking about Vienna Ensemble, which has its own internal hosting system and I think runs outside the DP/MOTU system anyway? I rarely use it and have the Pro version; mostly I use it standalone outside the DAW's to validate, authorize, and quarantine new plug-ins and updates.

Anyway, I didn't know MAS was still provided for any of VSL's products. But is it also an issue with instances of Synchron Player and Vienna Instruments?

I've stuck with Audio Units due to the extra level of preset handling, which I find very useful and can't live without. I've considered switching to VST at some point, just for better cross-DAW compatibility, except that would leave Logic in the cold.

mhschmieder wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:09 am What is VSL? It sounds like we're talking about Vienna Ensemble, which has its own internal hosting system and I think runs outside the DP/MOTU system anyway?

VSL's Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 works in conjunction with DP as a host for multiple computers or different library groups. It's extremely convenient for hosting different projects as you can unload/reload large sample library sets and save them separately from DP. This allows you to keep the DP window open while switching between sample libraries. This is very useful and allows you to switch DP projects without having to reload sample libraries. It also lets you use your wife's computer and RAM for sample libraries in the background without her being bothered.

It's working fine with DP 11 running on OS 10.14 here.

gulliverity is running an M1-powered Mac, a place many of of will end up sooner or later. For me, it will be a least a little while later, so as to avoid issues like gulliverity is currently having. That said, it seems a tad unfair to blame MOTU for Vienna's software issues. DP running native on Apple Silicon doesn't guarantee everyone else has ported their software.

I'm running an M1 MacBook Air and MainStage for my live shows. Working really well, including NI Kontakt and Arturia stuff under Rosetta 2. But I ain't gonna' try to shift the studio to Apple Silicon until the All Clear smoke signals are rising about me.

Kudos to MOTU for what sounds like a solid update for DP.

bayswater wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:51 pmThe downside is DP 11 recorded exactly what I played, so no improvements there.

Yep, no improvement there for me either

I found out though Finale does have some cool assets to recommend changes within a MIDI file.
Thinking about buying it after demoing.

Regards mm,

Gary