MOTU M2/4

[Prime Mover]

Is it weird that I sort of miss CueMix... but not really?

Like, I'm sure after 5 minutes, I would hate it again. But I do wish their were more routing and monitoring options, which would be easy with software. But if I had to use software, I would probably cry.

[stubbsonic]

The replacement power supply for my FF800 showed up today. Installed pretty easily/quickly, and now my FF800 is back up & running!! Pheeew!!

I feel so much more confident about using the M4 for iPad and secondary stuff and keeping the FF800 on duty for my studio work.

What a relief!

[mikehalloran]

The replacement power supply for my FF800 showed up today. Installed pretty easily/quickly, and now my FF800 is back up & running!! Pheeew!!

I feel so much more confident about using the M4 for iPad and secondary stuff and keeping the FF800 on duty for my studio work.

What a relief!

Did you notice a difference with the firmware update?

[stubbsonic]

Did you notice a difference with the firmware update?

FWIW, I did NOT have a system freeze after updating the M4 and before switching back to the FF800. The system freeze phenomenon was not frequent, so there mightn't have been enough time post update to determine if that was a fix.

I did however have one incident post-update where the M4 turned off then back on again. But that may be related to USB bus or the recently acquired powered hub. There were a couple of times when the Mac report that my Time-Machine drive was unplugged improperly. This makes me suspect that either the USB bus, or the USB hub might have some fragile moments.

The FF800 has always been a rugged warrior.

[alavelle]

I have a question, recently, my M4 does not produce audio from the imputs in Live, Markbass standalone, or in its MOTU audio tools.

It does work in the apple audio apps and zoom. Any ideas? Thanks

[dix]

I have a question, recently, my M4 does not produce audio from the imputs in Live, Markbass standalone, or in its MOTU audio tools.

It does work in the apple audio apps and zoom. Any ideas? Thanks

Have you checked the hardware/output settings in Live etc, to make sure that the M4 is selected as the output device in those apps?

[mikehalloran]

This is M4 specific.

I plug my keyboard (Yamaha P121) into the combi inputs with balanced TRS cables, I get a ground loop—doesn't matter if mono (L/LR) or stereo (L & R). Mono TS cables sound fine with no excess noise. If I take a headphone out, I'm also good, whether I split it for stereo or not. OK, TRS out of a headphone jack only — Got it.

That's not the issue. It's inputs 3/4. No matter how I wire it, the volume is way lower.

With inputs 1/2, all controls at 12 o'clock and piano volume midway produces an acceptable level with plenty of headroom if I want to crank up and blow out my ears.

Inputs 3/4 have no trim or volume. If I crank the Yamaha all the way up and the headphones to the max, the volume is almost half as much as 1/2 in the mid position. Yes, I have the 3/4 Monitor button engaged and the Mix full counterclockwise else there would be no sound at all.

Can anyone please check this? Am I missing something? Did I get a bad unit? If this is normal, I will have to return the M4 (and I waited months on backorder).

Since I have my Mackie ProFX6v3, I'm able to A/B the units. It doesn't matter if the P121 goes into the combi jacks 1/2, line inputs 3/4 or mini stereo jack 5/6, the levels are the same.


The reason I bought this is to be able to transfer a boxes of analog 4 track tape and cassettes. With the latest drivers, I can use the 828mkII for this task but the M4 takes up a quarter the desk space (and half the space of the Mackie).

No buyer's remorse. I want this to work for me and will be extremely disappointed if it has to go back.

[bayswater]

It's inputs 3/4. No matter how I wire it, the volume is way lower.

Could it be some sort of impedance matching problem? Maybe works better with some sort of DI? I assume you've tried other sources on both input pairs. Is there a -10 / +4 setting?

[stubbsonic]

I'll test it later today or tonight. I'll try using balanced inputs into 1 & 2 for ground hum, and I'll test the level when using line level outs to inputs 3 & 4.

[stubbsonic]

I connected the balanced out of my PC3 and connected it via a TRS balanced patch cord to inputs 1 & 2, and didn't have any ground hum, or noise. Worked normally.

I connect the same output to inputs 3 & 4, and the meters showed levels at about halfway with normal playing, and about 75-80% with very hard playing. My keyboard was up all the way. I'd suspect this is pretty normal for Kurzweil-- which probably doesn't have especially hot outputs.

It doesn't seem unusual on my end. I don't think one should have to pre-amp a keyboard out, but I'm generally accustomed to going through a mixer or a pre-amp before going into line inputs.

[mikehalloran]

I don't think one should have to pre-amp a keyboard out, but I'm generally accustomed to going through a mixer or a pre-amp before going into line inputs.

Yea, I agree,

I hooked up a 4-track cassette. To match 3/4, I set the gain a little under the 8 o'clock position on 1/2. If that was the only use I had for this, I could make that work but, in these days of SIP, having the keyboard so soft is unacceptable. The sound is better from a Headphone jack but cranking up the Yamaha all the way for such a low volume is no good.

I'll give MOTU a call but if they don't have an actual solution, back it goes to Sweetwater. With the Yamaha having a USB MIDI out, the 5 pin DIN is not needed (and I still have my MTP AV and 828).

Perhaps there's an undocumented -10/+4 setting like my 828mkII (well, except for the undocumented part).

I haven't checked bus power with iOS yet but it's not the priority this is.

Now to hook up the Mackie for this evening's Zoom choir rehearsal.

[bayswater]

I'll give MOTU a call but if they don't have an actual solution, back it goes to Sweetwater.

Please let us know what they say. I'm on hold with this now, and somewhat disappointed.

[mikehalloran]

I spoke with Travis at MOTU this morning. Line 3/4 are +18dB inputs and there's no way around this. Damn! Perhaps the next version will have -10/+4 selectable like the 828 etc.

As for the ground loop issues, that's the Yamaha since unbalanced cables don't have that problem. Likewise, taking the headphone out and running mono or splitting R/L is quiet.

4 channel cassette deck input level is barely acceptable as is audio from my iPad Pro when cranked up full. Tried my Casio keyboard in and it wasn't much better but the Yamaha is a deal killer for me.

I might keep this. The MOTU driver adds foldback functionality that might be useful to me. Running the P121 mono into 1 or 2 is ok for what I'm doing over Zoom right now. Heck, I could use that little Mackie as a 6 channel preamp.

The Mackie only has USB 1/2 out but has 1/2 + 3/4 in. The entire series is the same, 6 to 30 channel versions.

I really need something with USB 1–4 out and the M4 has that. Gonna do some exploring to see if any other small USB interface has that also.


BTW, my wife is in love with that P121 and its Graded Hammer Standard action. I wish I had the space for the 88 key P125 in my office but that would pose a safety hazard for me. Outstanding for $599 (73) or $649 (88). I got her the FC3A ($37) for half-pedal functionality. The Bösendorfer is out of commission—the action is ready but with SIP, we've not had it reinstalled (maybe June?) so this gives her something decent to practice on—plug in the headphones and go without disturbing me while working.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... iano-white

[bayswater]

I spoke with Travis at MOTU this morning. Line 3/4 are +18dB inputs and there's no way around this. Damn! Perhaps the next version will have -10/+4 selectable like the 828 etc.

Thanks for the update. I think this pretty much takes the M4 off my short list. Might still consider the M2 if I can get better playback quality from it that what I have now.

[mikehalloran]

Nearly all the new fast USB 2 interfaces that have inputs 3/4 are +18dBu at those ports and DCA which can get weird with balanced cables. The Scarlet v3 series manual at least explains that. The NI Audio 6 v. 2 doesn't have a manual and the Quick Start guide doesn't explain much of anything. Anyway that is out as is the 4i4.

Which leads back to the Mackie FxPro6v3. Its 3/4 do not have a mic pre but otherwise behave as I expect. The Yamaha gives it no grief no matter how I hook it up.

There is also a 5/6 stereo 1/8" TRS for mp3 players etc. I hook up my iPad Pro that I play live and it works great but... To hear it when recording, I need to monitor playthrough from DP—otherwise, it drops out of the headphone mix the second I hit Record. I have to hit some magic combination of switches to get it into the 'phones for audition and record but it does work. It's fast enough that I do not hear any latency and going back to a buffer size of 32, there's no need for me to compensate in the recording. Otoh, a L/R 3.5mm TRS to 1/4" Male L/R splitter into 3/4 makes it behave same as plugging in a keyboard. All Mackie ProFxv3 boards have this stereo channel.

If the Mackie had Mac drivers that included foldback and USB 3/4 out, I'd send the M4 back but it's Core Audio only. No MIDI on the Mackie and all models are USB 1/2 out, 1/2 3/4 in. The Yamaha has USB MIDI out instead of 5 Pin DIN so that's not an issue. Only having USB 1/2 out is, however, and the M4 has that. The mic pres sound great on both units. No reason to pull out the outboards for anything I'm doing now.

Everything could be done on my 828mkII and if I was hurting for money I could send both the M4 and Mackie back. I really like the speed and 1-knob direct monitoring/blend however, enough to use the ProFx6 as my go-to or as a preamp for my M4. For now..