Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

[mikehalloran]

"Garage Band Plus".

repeated LOLs.

Closer than you think. According to engineers who work on it, GB is "Logic Extra Lite".

[Robert Randolph]

It's not even that uncommon...

There's Cubase artist, Sonar Artist, Studio One Prime, Motu Audiodesk etc..

I'm not exactly sure why folks think that garageband being a 'lite version' of Logic is particularly noteworthy. It is just that, and nearly every DAW company I know of does something similar.

[mikehalloran]

It's not even that uncommon...

There's Cubase artist, Sonar Artist, Studio One Prime, Motu Audiodesk etc..

I'm not exactly sure why folks think that garageband being a 'lite version' of Logic is particularly noteworthy. It is just that, and nearly every DAW company I know of does something similar.

True but the reason it's not always obvious is that Logic is always redone first and GB doesn't catch up till later, sometimes a lot later. Not that there's anything wrong with that when Logic is cheap and GB is free or $4.99.

[dewdman42]

A few things I would love to see adopted into DP which are better on Logic:

• better MIDI plugins and a scripting environment
• better notation integration. Not for producing printed scores, but rather simply in the way we can access standard music notation in parallel with the piano roll while working on our music. In fact most of the time I wish the piano roll were more of a musical staff view, but not in a page view like DP's. Logic's is way more useful in this regard

[Shooshie]

A few things I would love to see adopted into DP which are better on Logic:

• better notation integration. Not for producing printed scores, but rather simply in the way we can access standard music notation in parallel with the piano roll while working on our music. In fact most of the time I wish the piano roll were more of a musical staff view, but not in a page view like DP's. Logic's is way more useful in this regard

There is the Notation Window in DP. It's a staff view, linear left-to-right track like the piano roll, but in notation. Is that anything like what you want to see?

Shoosh

[dewdman42]

yea I'm familar with what DP has...its entirely inadequate. That notation window hasn't been updated in at least a decade or two, or three, and pretty much sucks. The other quickscribe is ok, but also hugely inferior. Main problem is that it only provides a page view, but its not the only problem.

[dewdman42]

For a better example, see Logic.

Also Cubase, Samplitude and several others.

DP is seriously under performing here.

[bayswater]

For a better example, see Logic.

Also Cubase, Samplitude and several others.

DP is seriously under performing here.

I agree that DP's scoring capabilities could use some attention. Increasing the range of items in the QS palettes, and making at least some of them available in the notation editor, or just making the notation editor and QS different views of the same thing, would be a start. At least let us put the Notation editor in the CW. But if MOTU is going to invest some time and effort in notation, I hope they aim higher than Logic. While Logic has improved a great deal in many areas in the last couple of years, notation ain't one of them. If you made the changes mentioned above to DP, you'd be close to parity. One feature I wanted to use, auto-detection of chords, has actually been removed from Logic, and little or nothing has been added.

While I'm at it, another tip DP could borrow from Logic: a drum editor. Ditch the long neglected drum editor and clunky device groups , let us hide unused notes in the piano roll, let us replace the note names with drum names that can be read in from and saved to an easily edited drum map, and add note grouping (e.g., for hats). Instant usable drum editor.

[dewdman42]

Oh yea I'd like to see improvements in the drum editor, but logic, as far as I know, doesn't have anything even as good as DP in that regard...so DP wins there.. Or does Logic have something I didn't know about?

Regarding notation, I think a lot of people get sidetracked with the idea that they want to print sheet music with their DAW, which I think is the wrong thinking. Really we should export the tracks to MuseScore, Finale, Sibelius or whatever is your preference, and do most all advanced scoring things in there. Its way beyond DP's scope to address those issues, which are a never ending rabbit hole of complexity.

But.. as musicians...I personally prefer to look at actual staves with notes on it when I'm composing and working on my music....not a piano roll. For me, a piano roll is something to adjust the performance aspects such as sustain of notes, and things like that, but when I'm working on the "music" I want to look at traditional staves with music on it where I can see the chords and accidentals and think of whatever chromatic notes I'm using or modulations, etc..

In samplitude they did it really smart. You see the staves as a consolidated window right above the piano roll, and the bar lines and notes all line up exactly. When you move a note in either one you see it move in the other place. The playback cursor is in the same place vertically on both window panes...its just a notation view of the music you're working on. Logic's is not quite as good as Samplitude..in that the bar lines don't line up between piano roll and notation. They decided to let the music space itself according to music notation rules rather than "working on the music" modes of operation.

Anyway my view is that notation as it stands in DP is pretty much useless they might as well remove it and free up screen real estate, its a useless tab on the consolidated window. Or they could make it far more useful in a way that makes sense for when you're working in a DAW, composing music. Then export the XML to a real notational program when you're ready to make a score.

A few other programs are worth mentioning. Notion and overture. Both of them are dedicated notational programs with rather substantial DAW capabilities. In theory you could do a complete mix in either one, using any VST plugins you want. Overture in particular provides complete access to piano roll editing for tweaking the MIDI performance. So they are very performance oriented, similar to a daw, but with a strong preference to standard notation as the way to view your music as you work on it. Well, myself I would still rather be mixing and using all the other capabilities of DP, film scoring, etc.. But I do think that if DP could provide a bit better standard notation way of approaching the creation of tracks...it would be really beneficial for a lot of people that are attracted to those performance oriented notational programs. It would not take much frankly. I will try to get a screen shot of Samplitude.

[dewdman42]

Here is samplitude on the PC:

[dewdman42]

This isn't quite released yet, but see where they are going with it:

http://sonicscores.com/wordpress/overture/

[bayswater]

I was interested in Samplitude, but they abandoned their Mac port. I'm not ready to get a PC for one app.

As for drum editors, my point was that Logic has made changes to the piano roll editor and with a couple of tweaks (that MOTU could do) a separate drum editor is unnecessary. They have not opened up the drum maps to drum sets other than their own, but that can't be far off. The frustration with the DP drum editor is the elusive drum names/maps. Getting them set up is convoluted, and reusing one that is created is a mystery. Dead simple with Logic.

Notation: DP's is not useless to me. A composer I work with sends me a song in GarageBand to retrack and mix, and I can send him a score from that serves for his records of his work.

Yes, a full notation app that pleases half the people half the time is a rat hole that DP doesn't want to enter. But I'd like to be able to do this: record a MIDI track with some chords, have the DAW figure out what the chords are, and create a simple sheet with chord names, slash notation showing rhythm, and the bass notes when they are other than the root note of the chord. Seems simple to me, but DP can't do it at all. Logic can sort of "fake" it. MuseScore2 can't detect chords, but can do the display OK.

[dewdman42]

oh yea, chord recognition and features such as chord tracks are something I have wanted for a very long time also. Cubase has that sort of thing. Sadly they removed the chord track feature that was in Logic9.

But anyway, that's the kind of practical standard notation features we need in a DAW where we plan to compose and create music.

[bayswater]

Yes, it's a bit of a mystery why Logic shows you the chord you're playing in the transport control, and does it quickly and with a fair degree of accuracy and detail, yet can't figure it out when you select a set of notes and click on a chord symbol. My usual complaint is that it's only two lines of code to make it work, but in this case, it can't be more than one.

[dewdman42]

well check out the manual for logic9. It used to have quite a bit of chord capability, including a complete chord track that could analyze the music and put up all the chord symbols for you, etc.. Not sure why they removed it for X