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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:06 pm
by MIDI Life Crisis
chrispick wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Again, different people have different ways of expressing themselves. And online forums like this are not condusive to friendly exchanges, per se. Things heat up fast when they're in print and you have to "compose" your answer or response. But I am CERTAIN if we were all hanging out in West LA Music talking about this, it would NOT have grown into a confrontational issue.
You may be right. Upon re-reading his posts, I don't perceive anything friendly or open or conducive to discussion in his language, but I could be mistaken.

And, if so, I apologize to all for my dismissiveness.
Yeah, well, I agree, Chris. But responding with comments like,

Are you looking for help or are you just venting anger?

don't do much to make the guy feel welcome either.

You know we agree on a lot of stuff around here and have had some good conversations on line. Maybe the guy has back burnered his sense of humor until he can sample a laugh track? Who knows???

I say give him some slack. Or not...

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:08 pm
by MIDI Life Crisis
Kind Of Loud wrote:MIDI Life Crisis.......let me guess.....you and the original poster are sitting side by side right now laughing your butts off......right?
No, actually Chris and I are at a bar in Glendale doing the whole thing by WiFi - keep you hands off my pizza dude!

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:08 pm
by MIDI Life Crisis
giles117 wrote:Of course this was moved to the Gripes section of the Board. ;)


No, it started in the MachFive section and was moved...

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:18 pm
by Kind Of Loud
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
Kind Of Loud wrote:MIDI Life Crisis.......let me guess.....you and the original poster are sitting side by side right now laughing your butts off......right?
No, actually Chris and I are at a bar in Glendale doing the whole thing by WiFi - keep you hands off my pizza dude!
HA!HA!....cool.!!!....Grab me a Bud.!!.....and don't leave us.!!....Shoosie's posts, while informative, are to long.!!!......(...someones ears are burning in The Lone Star right now.)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:32 pm
by gblock
If the guy is having problems and posts them here, I see that as asking for help, not just a bitch session.
I don't know what it is; to be honest, I'm upset. If I've been stupid, I've been stupid. I'm at least partially upset that I came here and read, then bought, then felt totally unprepared for the bedlam that came after. I'm half cross at myself for creating this mess, and ramping up my hopes to have them dashed, and half at everyone else for not having some kind of FAQ for this stuff. I thought to myself, if I had just *known* to expect this, I wouldn't have minded. At all.

Dunno if it's true, but it's what I thought.
Ultimately, I did fix them both, but frankly I was pissed. I was out the money, and even worse, my productivity came to a halt. So I really know how this feels.
Now that's put your finger on it. That's exactly how I feel. And I'd expected... I don't know, a sudden surge of creativity; I thought I'd just... somehow mass import all my samples from where they were, and have a really fun experimentation session with the new system. I just didn't get the kind of experimentation I was expecting. :)
But again, ultimately, I think the guy stated his problem and while I have no soultions, I can say I've been there. DP and M5 work fantastic in my rig (I don't use Logic and maybe that's why???). But there were times when they didn't play well together and it can be annoying and frustrating. I would hope that this board would accept comments from folks who are having these kinds of problems.
And believe it or not, I feel a lot better for having read that.

I walked away from this post to have a good think - at least partially about what I *was* expecting when I wrote that.

I'll be honest: I wanted to be told I was wrong; that this was just teething pains. Or, at the very least, I was being unrealistic. Perhaps that I should have known better. Anything. And today I feel a bit better about it.

It doesn't tick me off any less to think about, but at least today wasn't a repeat of yesterday.

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:18 pm
by chrispick
Well, gblock, I apologize for being so confrontational. I think I'd simply run into too many angry posts on this site lately and I reacted out-of-proportion.

I'm glad you're getting Mach Five to work for you. If anything else does come up, post it here and I'll do my best to help.

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:38 pm
by MIDI Life Crisis
chrispick wrote:Well, gblock, I apologize for being so confrontational. I think I'd simply run into too many angry posts on this site lately and I reacted out-of-proportion.

I'm glad you're getting Mach Five to work for you. If anything else does come up, post it here and I'll do my best to help.
Yeah, but does he have the manual....? :)

How about that beeer, bud? :)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:38 pm
by Kind Of Loud
You gotta admit...the person who started this thread, was a bit "overboard"?...shall we say?

Had a bad day with his/her software?...That's never happened to anyone, has it?...

Then he/she has a fit because James moves the thread?..!!....Sheesh.!!!.. Outrageous.!!!........James is so "hard" on folks here.!!... Without James... we would'nt even be here Mr.Insulted.!!!......

Next time you have a bad day, "software wise", click your heals and repeat....."There's no place like home......There's no place like home.......We're going home Toto.!!....There's no place like home."........Ahhhhh.....

It's awesome dude......Go for it.!!!!!

OK...first round of Buds are on me.......Cheers.!!!!

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:14 am
by pieninja
when im investigating a product with the mind to buy it, i find forums 10 times more useful where people like gblock can come on and say bad things about it. i get an honest opinon. i hate the forums full of people patting each others backs and getting really defensive when someone comes in with a bad product experiance. Do you want to cencor all the bad things said about your precious little products, coz i dont think people with that attitude choose thier equipment very proffessionaly. Because you made the decision to invest in a product, you see it as criticism of you when the product is questioned. Whats the deal with intense product loyalty. You dont owe Motu anything, stop waving thier flag.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:42 am
by MIDI Life Crisis
pieninja wrote:when im investigating a product with the mind to buy it, i find forums 10 times more useful where people like gblock can come on and say bad things about it. i get an honest opinon. i hate the forums full of people patting each others backs and getting really defensive when someone comes in with a bad product experiance. Do you want to cencor all the bad things said about your precious little products, coz i dont think people with that attitude choose thier equipment very proffessionaly. Because you made the decision to invest in a product, you see it as criticism of you when the product is questioned. Whats the deal with intense product loyalty. You dont owe Motu anything, stop waving thier flag.
You can tell from my other posts that I am not necessarily a flag waver (or is that waiver?) The purpose of the forum is to help each other with information about DP and related topics and some see (saw) the original post as doing little in terms of 'help.' But it is a fine line, really like a love-hate kind of thing.

The fact is (brb- getting my flag now...) DP and M5 and MX4 are fine products that perform extremely well for 99 & 44/100% of the folks (I dare say GUYS - as I have yet to see a woman post here) using the forum.

I don't praise these products because I feel any loyalty to a software mfg., but because they work and I want to support their efforts for a very selfish reason. I have a substantial investment in the product and a bigger investment in my career. I want to contiune using the best tools possible. Sure, you can find plenty of problems every day here. You can also find them on every other product sites that are as open as this one.

The "professional" or better yet, the INTELLIGENT way to make a choice is to do your homework, research the problems AND THE BENEFITS and, hopefully, try the product at a friends home or at a music store. Unfortunately, this is not always possible and MOTU does not offer a demo version (for whatever reason).

ONE OTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND: People who come to forums like these often come BECAUSE they are having difficulties. So you are going to see more problems than "back patting." In fact, I don't think there is much patting going on in this forum. Defense; yes! But again, now we're getting into more of a loyalty issue. But I never bought into the Pro Tools thing and frankly have never seen the program used in a way that would work FOR ME. That goes back to the very first days of PT. It was always awkward and time consuming IMO. But if I DID buy it, and it sucked, you can be sure I would be all over the PT sites asking questions and yes, bitching my little head (or big head actually) off. And I would NOT expect to be flamed for doing it.

So I am both agreeing with you and disagreeing with you here. This forum is NOT full of squeeky little geeks praising DP because they don't have a life or a career. Many are accomplished (professional or not) and do what they do very well. Perhaps it gets down to expression? As I said earlier, we all have our own way of expressing ourselves. In an online forum like this, it is extremely difficult to present your views without seeming like an ass (my current post included!) or a moron (ditto) or an arrogant SOB <sigh> (guilty again!).

BOTTOM LINE: Most of us are happy to help each other. If that means steering someone away from DP, M5 or MX4, so be it. Better that than having them come bitch about it.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:42 am
by newrigel
Well... I have problems too but I try to read the manual and then if there's something that I just can't grasp, then I look to this great bunch here to help me and I try not to have conjecture when I ask a question so I don't catch too much flack he he. I'm not the most savvy guy out there but there's times you have to really reflect on your post focus so that you can get a response that's helpful and concise.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:42 pm
by chrispick
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
chrispick wrote:Well, gblock, I apologize for being so confrontational. I think I'd simply run into too many angry posts on this site lately and I reacted out-of-proportion.

I'm glad you're getting Mach Five to work for you. If anything else does come up, post it here and I'll do my best to help.
Yeah, but does he have the manual....? :)

How about that beeer, bud? :)
Man, after this next week I think I'll need that beer. Just got slammed. Number one client, so I gotta take it like a man.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:15 pm
by gblock
newrigel wrote:Well... I have problems too but I try to read the manual and then if there's something that I just can't grasp, then I look to this great bunch here to help me and I try not to have conjecture when I ask a question so I don't catch too much flack he he. I'm not the most savvy guy out there but there's times you have to really reflect on your post focus so that you can get a response that's helpful and concise.
Okay, let's put this to bed.

- I read the manual. The *whole* manual. Front to back. Nowhere did it mention that up to date versions of the product wouldn't validate under Logic. The problems I'm having are with, specifically, a lack of information.
- I came here before I bought the product. I didn't see big FAQs saying "expect this to not work" or "expect that to not work". Again, this is specifically with the AudioUnit version of MachFive.

It would have been nice to find out, somewhere, before I bought the product, the fact that though other forms got multiple output channels, AudioUnits did not. It would have been nice to know while I was trying to install the product that I could expect it to not validate; those of you who "grew" with the product used it when validation wasn't required, and lived through 7.1->7.1.1 as it happened - it wasn't news for you. For someone installing the product from scratch today, it's a real kick in the shin.

I made the mistake of putting my foot in it, and I shouldn't have. Wish I hadn't. At this point, all I can do is recommend that someone makes a sticky on the MachFive thread for new users to tell them the problems they can *expect* to have when they install the product.

Whether or not anyone does that... well, that's their business. I've done what I needed to do: I've written a blog entry that describes my first 48 hours, and my gripes, and in another week or so, anyone looking for information from Google on it will at least have *something* they can find that can warn them of what they might encounter.

My mistake was that I felt very strongly that this is the place that I could have found out about these problems from, but didn't. My post was as much for the next me in a shop as it was for myself - and I'll happily apologise for darkening folks' doorstep with that. But unless someone takes their foot out and does something, I doubt I'll be the last. Getting the AudioUnit version of MachFive up and running isn't fun at the moment, and a sticky would go a long way towards warning new users as to what they can expect, thus defusing possibly explosive posts, like my own, that take place after a day trying to get this stuff to work.

At the moment, I'm back on the fence again. The lack of multiple outs makes the multi version of the plugin seem pretty pointless, and so now I've got to go through and benchmark memory usage on how much memory each stereo instance is going to take up.

You guys do what you want - it's your forums. I came here for information, the information wasn't here, and I think that's a damn shame. Buyer should have been a lot more ware than he was. End of story, end of post, end of thread - move on, it just doesn't matter. It was written the wrong way, it was taken the wrong way, and it's been followed up to with every possible kind of response. It's an ex-parrot.

I might be back if I actually have problems I need help with - but nobody here can help me with the fact that the product doesn't actually do what it says on the tin. Ultimately, that's the point of the original post, and my disappointment. Ultimately, that's where I felt the forum left me down - for better or worse, regardless of whether you feel I "should" have felt that way or not - those are my feelings.

Let's just put this all behind us. I don't need or want this to continue. Nobody's going to convince me I was wrong to post, and I'm not going to convince anyone that the post belongs exactly where it was. That's life.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:30 pm
by newrigel
Just as long as your problem is solved is really whats important.

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:01 pm
by giles117
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
giles117 wrote:Of course this was moved to the Gripes section of the Board. ;)


No, it started in the MachFive section and was moved...
DUH!!!!!!!! thats what I said. People just dont read anymore. Our school systems are failing. (no insult to you) I home school my kids. and force them to read and comprehend. :)