OSX Mac vs OSX Intel

[Resonant Alien]

I wonder if MOTU will focus more on the Intel-compatible version of DP and its components while dragging the current versions along like an albatross. I do fear that before I'd planned to get a new Quad or Intel Mac (having bought two G5's and a 17" Powerbook in the past year), that support for my current setup will take a back seat or stop altogether.

Of course MOTU will begin fousing more on Intel-based Macs going forward - that is the future platform for a while. The Intel-compatible version of DP will not stop working on powerPC, and MOTU will have to support DP on PowerPC for a while (at least 12-18 months) since most people will still be running PowerPC for a while (the MacTel towers aren't even out yet..). I think what you will see is that DP will start getting slower and become less optimized when running on a PowerPC Mac because any performance enhancements would be optimized for Intel machines - kind of like running DP on a single G4 now. All recent enhancements have been optimized for dual processor G5s. The app still works on a single G4, just not as good.

[papageno]

MOTU will have to support DP on PowerPC for a while (at least 12-18 months)

I think that PPC support will be here for some years.
The transition to Intel has only begun... and with mobile processor.

Of course there will be less programmers working on PPC optimization.

[thomaspmusic]

After getting emails confirming the PCI-e versions of UAD and PCI424, I am looking for the best deal on a quad G5. Most reports are raving about the power, and they are all using firewire audio, which, to my experience, hits the processor harder than PCI. So, things will only get better. I just want 2 years with a great set-up, and then the intels will be stable. Right now, I'm working on an upgraded AGP G4 with a 1.5 ghz card in it. Its stable, and although I can't (or won't) try to get 8 altiverbs and 20 atmospheres at 96k, I am working. I use my rack modules, and some reason, and people are happy. Seems like some of us are trying to make our computers do more than they should, and then blame MOTU because our computers don't "cultivate" and multiply their processing power as we install new software. I installed BFD, and it was click and pop hell. I said well this will have to wait for the new mac and loaded "Bob Clearmountain Drums" into my Roland S760 and went on about my day, rather than getting mad at MOTU or APPLE.
Looking forward to my new "liquid production" environment while using COMMON SENSE with the environment I'm in...
tp

[Frodo]

That may be true for some, but my concern chimes in with what Resonant Alien said. We know that MOTU will be investing their time and attention to the newer machines and optimizing DP for those machines. That DP4.6 still hasn't overcome many basic problems that have carried over, and this gives me cause for concern that support for PPC will take a back seat. It's a legit concern, especially when PCI compatibility is evolving *almost* as rapidly as CPU configurations.

Within the past year, I've invested about $6k in computer related updates and retrofits, and I only hoped not to have to start over again so soon. It's not the money for me so much as the increase in frequency this money has to be spent.

Blaming MOTU for running 8 Altiverbs and 20 virtual instruments? Of course not, although many people are quite proud of how much they've been able to squeeze out of their newer Macs these days-- and rightfully so. Holding MOTU responsible for glitches like quirky undo history, jittery scroll bar, crash on boot or crash on quit, etc.? Yes.

Not having to upgrade your PCI cards and peripherals once a year? Priceless.

[thomaspmusic]

I agree that the current version of DP is a little bloated and could be refined. When DP 5 goes "universal, can't everyone who spent 6k last year still load up the new version?
I thought, based on what I read, that it will get easier for developers once everything goes universal. Aside from speed, I haven't read anything about the intel macs so far that say they're anything but faster. Well, they lost FW800, but besides that, they're just faster. Sounds like when we went to power PC native.
When I upgraded my 324 to 424, it was $295, which I thought was fair. I just spent over $600 to take my protools rig to PT7 and all I did was download several billion 1's and 0's! The 300ish we'll have to spend to go to PCI-e is less than the shipping for all the junk that 6k will get you.
If you went down "digi" street, that 6k would have gotten you an HD CORE CARD with no audio interface. 20 years ago, 6k would have been the wiring/tech bill for hooking up your new ($45,000) Otari. So, we still win, right?:)
tp

[Frodo]

..and that was $6k well-spent! The stuff worked!

Don't get me wrong, I do count my blessings with all this. For as much as we talk about what's wrong with our hardware and software, we rarely go into detail about what's right with today's music technology. There is very much right with it, and this week alone has seen the completion of two new original creations from my humble studio even with the bumps and workarounds. That which was once impossible 20 years ago has become fairly probable today. Last year I had a project where the studio was using a massive DP hard disc recording setup. It was great to do live sessions at 10 AM, bring home the hard disc at 10 PM and write a string arrangement, load the tracks into the same DP file (or a copy of it) and then take it all back to the studio the very next morning to everyone's delight.

It's just that we're often told that all we need is "this" unit or "that" add-on to have the ideal setup for what we aim to accomplish. $1500 later, it either doesn't function as it should, or we have to spend another $1500 for more add-ons and retrofits just to get up to speed. At one point, the biggest single recurring investment was the computer itself. Amps and speakers tend to have longer shelf lives.

Once upon a time, my old 2408mk2 fried and it seemed a good time to get the mk3. I bought one that was marked on the box as "G4-compatible, G5-ready" for about $1100. It was quite G4-compatible, but it turned out not to be G5-ready as advertised. A little more money, a little more time and I finally got what I thought I'd just bought. I suppose a long series of unfortunate exeriences like this have made me more wary of late. It's not my intention to appear overly pessimistic or cynical about what's going on.

I still outsource my most serious stages of my projects, and I am still a believer in outboarding the most crucial gear. Striking the right balance between software and hardware processing remains the wisest approach, imho. I still congratulate those who are accomplishing their endeavors with a one-computer, all-virtual configuration.

DP5 will be a slow update for me. I'm going to stick with 4.61 for a while until I fully understand why I couldn't do without DP5. New hardware and software are harbingers of more radical change than normal, and it will be very important to see how writers of software will deal with the Apple-Intel platform. Will there ever be a rewrite of DP from the ground up? Probably-- in time. It will be quite revealing to observe how quickly or slowly the entire Intel era will develop now that it's upon us.