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Chiming in here. I’ve used Dorico since v. 1 and I love it. It’s puzzling at times but creates beautiful output.
My .02


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Downloaded the demo version of Dorico. Can't get it to work. Clunkiest install I've ever seen.

Phil O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:52 am Downloaded the demo version of Dorico. Can't get it to work. Clunkiest install I've ever seen.

I thought you must be exaggerating so I tried it. Sheesh. You’d have to really want it.

bayswater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:58 pm

Phil O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:52 am Downloaded the demo version of Dorico. Can't get it to work. Clunkiest install I've ever seen.

I thought you must be exaggerating so I tried it. Sheesh. You’d have to really want it.

Does it get stuck on "Audio Engine Initialization"? Sometimes several restarts get me past this window. Sometimes you just have to wait.

cuttime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:32 pm
Does it get stuck on "Audio Engine Initialization"? Sometimes several restarts get me past this window. Sometimes you just have to wait.

Here is some good info they sent me back when first using...

Note that if Dorico ‘unexpectedly quits’ (i.e. crashes), then it can leave the VST Audio Engine hanging; and when Dorico tries to launch again, it gets stuck, because it can’t start the VST Engine for the new session.
As you’ve found out, killing the VST Engine will allow Dorico to start up normally.

David Das posted the below video recently. Apparently there's something called MuseScore that is open source and had a recent update and is also supposed to be a very good option. I guess Hal Leonard has adopted it?

Many think this is being driven by MakeMusic going out of money. No... Peaksware LLC, the parent company, is worth an estimated $45B as in billions,

The cold, hard fact is that desktop notation apps are not a way for anyone to make big money anymore as Fender (Notion) and Sonic Scores (Overture, Encore) have learned — unless the business plan does not count on notation for the success of the company.

MakeMusic has tons of money but Finale is barely a decimal point on Peaksware’s bottom line. MakeMusic for Cloud (once SmartScore) and other products are paying the bills — and why they can afford to keep the Finale license server running "indefinitely" (their term, not mine)

Dorico is Yamaha but they’ve never committed the large amounts of money that some would like—no other explanation exists for version 1’s premature release. It’s possible that Dorico is making money but Steinberg certainly doesn’t act like it. MusicXML import is ok but export is not—they’ve had years to get it right. Steinberg’ a long awaited overhaul of their licensing scheme is 3–4 years late and has been pushed back to 2025 although incremental progress has been made. This deal that has been made with MM is brilliant — a whole lot of new Dorico customers. Some of them will stick around for upgrades and internal crossgrade to other Steinberg products.

Cyprus based Muse Group is flush with Russian cash. Many of their apps are free but MuseScore, Audacity and others are the gateway drugs to Muse Group’s plan for total domination of the music world. The acquisition of Hal Leonard, largest music publisher in the world is the keystone to this plan. They’ve announced that MuseScore 5 is expected to be the de facto notation app for HL—for that, it will have to be good. We’ll see… MuseScore.com is a subscription site for people to upload their scores (created in MuseScore only) for people who pay $30 per year for unlimited download privileges. They understand that the notation app is not where the money is but they do let you buy sounds for it through MuseHub.

Sibelius is bigger than most people realize but part of its functionality relies on MusicXML from MM. The tools may be free to use but the engineering is not. Avid’s cash cow is ProTools and Sibelius fits into that business plan. Although permanent licenses are available, Avid does their best to keep that a secret. I expect them to roll with the market.

My 2¢

cuttime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:32 pm Does it get stuck on "Audio Engine Initialization"? Sometimes several restarts get me past this window. Sometimes you just have to wait.

Yes. That's where it gets stuck. I tried several restarts, and it finally gave me a message that it needed other files to boot the audio engine. It made me download the entire package (including instruments) which was several GB. I just wanted to try the program. I don't give a flying $%*@ about the included VIs.
Anyhow I finally got it to boot and realized I can't even get started without a deep dive into the manual. What a messed up interface! I haven't decided yet whether I want to invest the time on learning even the basics. Looks like work flow hell.

Major dissapointment.

I guess I am among the few who really love Finale. I've used it since 1996 for the Olympics; 2004-24 for the Academy of Motion Pictures; 2006 for the Chicago Symphony; and most recently in 2024 for Sony/Columbia Pictures. The musical thoughts made it to the page quickly and accurately and the 100s of musicians performing it didn't have any problems in interpreting my thoughts.

I'm also going to stay on Mac OS 10.14.6 until the bucket kicks the bucket or I kick the bucket.

I know a few folks who have had all sorts of problems with things like part extraction and importing from older files. I've not had these issues.

I bought and returned Sibelius. Useless P.O.S. and my pals who moved to Doritos [sic] are none too happy.

So I will stay on this last version of Finale as long as i can. But it would seem to me that this is a great opportunity for MOTU to dip their feet into notation and clean up on the market. There are a lot of disillusioned, and dare I say "disenfranchised" notation users who are ready to embrace something that has an intuitive GUI, creates complex scores, and OMG if it was integrated into a really great DAW...

I also dream in color!

I hear you, MLC. I have a copy of Finale that still works on Sequoia that I still use but who knows for how long that will be? As far as I can tell Dorico is the only game in town that will do what I need but learning it is torture. Nothing, and I mean nothing is intuitive. While inserting left thumb where it should never go, hold down T, L and Z then select Gravity>Cephalopod>E=MC^2>Quarter Rest>Insert from the Goober menu. That will bring up the Font dialog.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:20 pm I'm also going to stay on Mac OS 10.14.6 until the bucket kicks the bucket or I kick the bucket.

Good plan. I updated to 12.7 because for a lot of apps and plugins, 10.14.6 was the minimum requirement and it looked like writing on the wall. But after a few necessary plugin updates and a a lot of fussing around with OS settings, nothing worked any faster or better.

Phil O wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:31 am …. I have a copy of Finale that still works on Sequoia that I still use but who knows for how long that will be?

As far as I can tell Dorico is the only game in town that will do what I need but learning it is torture. Nothing, and I mean nothing is intuitive. While inserting left thumb where it should never go, hold down T, L and Z then select Gravity>Cephalopod>E=MC^2>Quarter Rest>Insert from the Goober menu. That will bring up the Font dialog.
…

Every Mac made between 2012 and mid 2025 will run Finale 27. No exceptions. What happens when macOS 16 rolls around? No one will know till then.

In the mean time, I've built an external that will boot and run Finale on any Mac built during those 14 years. I'll be posting a more complete set of instructions on how to build it than the set I've already posted.

It's not for the faint of heart to build a drive that boot a 2012 into Mojave (I still use Encore) or Catalina and Sequoia—nor is it intuitive—but it works.

Dirty little secret: The Finale License Manager phones home only for new installations and has a "feature" that lets you install as many times as you want. I'm not gong to post that on the official Support board, of course. The cool part is that I did not have to reverse-engineer anything to discover this, only observe how things worked. The only way that MakeMusic can keep that from happening is to a) release a new build of Finale and b) convince everyone to update, neither of which will ever happen.

I've had Dorico since v.2. Maybe this is the year when I will learn it. Or not... I am in no hurry.

I've been reading along here as a user of Finale since at least the Coda Music v3. You get used to a piece of software if you use it for long enough. I've had my pros and cons about it, but those pros and cons became more clearly defined once I delved into Dorico. What I know about Finale after years of use was how to circumnavigate its idiosyncrasies. It will take me a while to figure that out with Dorico. I still find the workflow a little odd, but learning it seems to be a must.

One odd thing with importing musxml files is that Dorico doesn't seem to know what to do with Finale's measure number formatting. Having to go through each import and fix the measure number placement and format is very time consuming and slows down the transition process. I don't want to complain too much because I have found Dorico a bit more approachable than Sibelius, which I felt compelled to try a few years ago.

I really appreciate the insights shared in this thread, but I will admit it still feels like somewhat of a funeral, mourning the loss of the only piece of software I use as much as DP. Yeah, I know. Finale is still around and is still in use, but knowing that there will never be a v28 is like the-- errrm--- "nail in the coffin".

Frodo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:01 am I really appreciate the insights shared in this thread, but I will admit it still feels like somewhat of a funeral, mourning the loss of the only piece of software I use as much as DP. Yeah, I know. Finale is still around and is still in use, but knowing that there will never be a v28 is like the-- errrm--- "nail in the coffin".

I have a 2008 MB and an 2008 MBP, and a 2012 MBP, and all three of them run some software that won't work on my current M1 MBP. E.g., Appleworks, Quicktime Pro, Chipmunk, ImageCapture (that actually works with my scanner), etc. etc.

I'll keep them running as long as I can.

I procrastinated really learning the ins & outs of Finale (I eventually got about 1/3 of the way there). Now I can procrastinate learning Dorico. That feels like progress.

Having been a Finale user since v.1 in 1989, I imagine that it will be my go-to until I can't. I never use it without the manual open on another screen. Way too much to remember.

I took some meetings with Muse Group at NAMM last month. Apparently, somebody has been paying attention to what I have been posting in Scoring Notes and the MakeMusic support boards about their plans for world domnation. Among the smoke being blown my way was the promise that MuseScore 5 will be more like Finale and that it will be the de facto notation app for Hal Leonard as I predicted last year.

"It will be the best notation app and that it's free will be icing on the cake."

Oh promises, promises... We'll see... Not holding my breath but not ruling anything out. I did notice that no one offered me a job.