Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
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nk_e
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Re: Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

Post by nk_e »

Thanks for taking the time Mike.
mikehalloran wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:07 am Did you remove everything they told you to? If not, you need to do so. I created a desktop folder and archived them there. If any of my apps had issues, I was prepared to put them back but none did so.
That's just it: They didn't tell me to remove anything. The response "from the engineers" the tech support guy kept saying, was to upgrade to Big Sur. If I couldn't do that, they wanted me to remove all peripherals and run the machine until a kernel panic happened, capture the report, and contact them again.

That's it. That's the two choices I was given.
mikehalloran wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:07 am You need to eliminate those kernel panics. Period. Stop second-guessing it. Once they are gone, then can you deal with the aftermath. Normally, if an app doesn’t work anymore, installing the latest build of it fixes you up.

Mojave is still supported till a few weeks after Monterey is released. If the people you are talking to don’t understand this, escalate it elsewhere.
I'm on Catalina, but I get your point: I need to escalate this or at least try again.
mikehalloran wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:07 am I’ve been having issues with Dropbox messing up my system — spinning beachball, not kernel panic, though. With Apple’s help and after many hours, I’ve isolated the problem as a conflict with Corel. Dropbox didn’t want to deal with it till I let them know I isolated the issue. I quoted them a consulting fee and haven’t heard back. I’m talking to Corel.
Installing the dropbox app last year caused a world of hurt for me as far as these panics go. I went through a lot of hoops to remove everything DropBox installed ...and I still wonder if there isn't some weird KEXT or something still floating around the system from it.

But no one on Apple's end got on my machine to do anything. They had me download an app that collected about 500mb of diagnostic data over the course of 90 minutes. That and the 42 crash reports I collected were sent to Apple for "further analysis". The result was the advice I relayed earlier.

I'll ask to re-open the ticket and ask for someone else to interact with.

Thanks.

Mac Studio | 96 GB RAM | OS 15.4 | LIVE 12 | CUBASE 14 | DP 11 | MOTU Interfaces | Waaay Waaay Too Many Plug-ins (but I'm improving!)|

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nk_e
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Re: Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

Post by nk_e »

So, in case anyone searches up Kernel Panics or Watchdog Panic Attacks (WDPAs) and such in the future, here is the final (🤞) resolution of my issue.

Big Sur and Watchdog Panic Attacks

The “watchdog panel attacks” continued with more frequency. Mike’s excellent advice on resetting launch services and other settings seemed less and less effective. (I’ve adopted it as a periodic hygiene practice though, especially after major installs.)

For different reasons, I decided to update to Big Sur. I also had the vague hope that it might help with this issue. I went through Mike’s processes, made a back-up, and upgraded to Big Sur. For the most part, it was painless. There were new audio drivers to install of course, and a few other updates, but it has been ok so far.

However… the WDPAs started up with a vengeance. They happened almost constantly now, the record being 12 in one day. I was desperate to solve this issue.

Apple support told me that I didn’t have any old KEXTs files on my system/loading up, so I figured it had to be a hardware issue. There were a couple of possibilities.
  • I had previously gone through all of my peripherals and isolated what I thought was a culprit device, but maybe another piece of hardware was the problem.
  • For all of its power, I believe the iMacPro has only two TB3 and two USB3.0 busses supporting its external ports. I have a lot of stuff connected to my system via a couple of quality USB hubs, a Cal Digit TS3+, and a couple of smaller Cal Digit TB3 hubs for multiple external monitors and USB connections. I had been careful about how my hubs/devices were connected to the ports to make sure I didn’t overwhelm one of them, but maybe a problem managing USB traffic was causing these panics.

So I had to start the process of figuring out if either (or both) of these was the case.

Testing USB Connected Hardware

I rationalized all USB connections to two 10 port hubs each on a different USB bus. (I figure the first two physical USB ports feed one bus, and the last two feed another.) I then disconnected one hub at the end of the day and left the computer running overnight. If it rebooted during the night, the problem is still connected to the system and thus is NOT something connected to the hub that was disconnected. (I am making the assumption here that there is only one device causing the problem.)

So, I disconnected hub ‘a’, ran the computer overnight and it rebooted by morning. (So the problem hardware was still connected.) I reconnected hub ‘a’. The next night I disconnected hub ‘b’, ran the computer overnight, and it rebooted! So the problem was not something connected to either USB hub. This narrowed it down to the things connected to one of the four TB3 ports.

Testing TB3 Connected Hardware

I won’t go though the details, but I essentially did the same process over the next several nights with the TB ports. Turns out that when I removed the CalDigit, the WDPAs stopped.

So I narrowed the issue to the Cal Digit! That left the question of which of the devices connected to the CalDigit might be causing the WDPAs. I went through the same process but with the devices that were connected to the Cal Digit as the test units.

The Culprit is Found!

Eventually the problem piece was identified: It was the CalDigit unit itself! Whenever that unit is plugged in (even with no other devices plugged into it), a WDPA is sure to occur. Without it plugged in to the computer, the system is rock solid.

I found that to be odd as the Cal Digit is regularly reviewed as the “top” TB3 hub for a Mac. I bought the unit in July of last year and according to my notes, these WDPAs didn’t start until after a Catalina security update in December. So it worked fine for awhile. Maybe the unit just “went bad” around the time of the update. It’s running the latest firmware, so the utility won’t let me re-flash it AFAIK. (FYI: I’m looking for alternatives if anyone has any recommendations. I’d like a dock that has a downstream TB3 port, at least one USB C port, and a few USB 3.1 or better Type A ports. Anything else is a bonus.)

Final(?) Thoughts

I hope this info will help someone. If this happens to you, the advice given by Mike Canavan earlier in the thread is pure gold. Also, ring up Apple Support if you can. If there are issues after that, then a meticulous examination of every connected peripheral is necessary. It’s a tedious and time consuming process, but organizing things so you can examine groups of peripherals at a time, then focusing in on the dodgey piece worked quite well for me and took less time. It’s not a perfect testing regimen - and there are several ways it could have failed - but it got the job done. Maybe it will for you too.

Hopefully, this will be my last entry in this thread.

Oh, A Nice Coda to the Story.

I had removed my Sonnet external PCI box housing my UAD Octo card because months ago I had identified that as the culprit. Out of curiosity I reconnected it to see if the system would remain stable. It has and for days now. So as a bonus, I have my UAD plugins back!

Peace everyone.

Mac Studio | 96 GB RAM | OS 15.4 | LIVE 12 | CUBASE 14 | DP 11 | MOTU Interfaces | Waaay Waaay Too Many Plug-ins (but I'm improving!)|

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mikehalloran
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Re: Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

Post by mikehalloran »

Glad to see you found the culprit.

I went through a similar hell after updating to Monterey. Long story short, I still had Dragon Dictate for Mac installed. Never worked well, hadn’t used it since 2013; discontinued by Nuance in 2014, wreaking absolute havoc in 2021. I was preparing for a call to Apple Support when I spied it in the Activity Monitor — what the…? Had to disable SIP to get rid of it entirely. Sheesh, what a pain … but I did and now everything’s fine again.
DP 11.34; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sequoia 15.4, USB4 8TB externals, Neumann MT48, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3, Zoom F3 & UAC 232 32bit float recorder & interface; 2012 MBPs (x2) Catalina, Mojave
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Re: Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

Post by nk_e »

mikehalloran wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:27 am Glad to see you found the culprit.

I went through a similar hell after updating to Monterey. Long story short, I still had Dragon Dictate for Mac installed. Never worked well, hadn’t used it since 2013; discontinued by Nuance in 2014, wreaking absolute havoc in 2021. I was preparing for a call to Apple Support when I spied it in the Activity Monitor — what the…? Had to disable SIP to get rid of it entirely. Sheesh, what a pain … but I did and now everything’s fine again.
Could not have done it without your patient help Mike. Many thanks!
Last edited by nk_e on Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chapito
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Re: Catalina kernel panics, spontaneous reboots to unmounted HD

Post by chapito »

Thanks guys for GREAT info!
8Pre-ES THB2 / 2011 iMac / macOS 10.13.4 / Logic Pro X / Finale26
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