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In no way will I pretend to be a programmer, but I'm curious as to whether they could "simply" combine concepts and tools they already have? Between Devices Groups and Consoles, it seems like the mechanics are already there to make articulation management happen. Combine those with what Logic does with their summing stacks and voila! Nesting channels in one tidy track, each with delay/effects added.

Not go OT, but it's related to the big picture: having many more controls built into the channel strip, rather than relying on plugins (Time Shift has been a tad buggy....) would be nice.

dix JunkieXL makes some great videos, that's for sure!

Altauria wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:33 pm In no way will I pretend to be a programmer, but I'm curious as to whether they could "simply" combine concepts and tools they already have? Between Devices Groups and Consoles, it seems like the mechanics are already there to make articulation management happen. Combine those with what Logic does with their summing stacks and voila! Nesting channels in one tidy track, each with delay/effects added.

Not go OT, but it's related to the big picture: having many more controls built into the channel strip, rather than relying on plugins (Time Shift has been a tad buggy....) would be nice.

It'd be worthwhile to send this idea to the suggestion box for sure (https://motu.com/en-us/suggestions). I've learned from the webinars that they take those suggestions very seriously. I doubt recent suggestions would make the next DP update, but one day maybe.

And yeah, all DP's current MIDI plugins would be nice to have as options in the articulations scheme (that may or may not be in the next update). ...I've never had an issue with the Time Shift plugin. FYI shifting by time, rather than ticks, is more reliable for this type of compensation, if that helps you.

Lots of great posts here. Hard to believe MoTU wouldn't be on this, after all DP is still the choice for many film/TV composers, and managing hundreds of articulations is the norm in that world. No wonder Zimmer's crew uses Logic.

smashprod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:28 pm Lots of great posts here. Hard to believe MoTU wouldn't be on this, after all DP is still the choice for many film/TV composers, and managing hundreds of articulations is the norm in that world. No wonder Zimmer's crew uses Logic.

Zimmer uses Cubase.

I would be utterly shocked if there wasn't some answer to articulation/expression mapping in the next version of DP. The fact that Vienna Ensemble Pro bothered to make a MAS version for DP specifically says it all.

Michael, I don't have any hopes for that in DP11. Also skeptical about the other thing I would like to see, general clippings remembering it's outputs (project clipping do remember).
I hope at least that they will add folders to MIDI device and bundles. Sorry to be pessimistic about the near future. The good thing is that we know that the things we want will eventually arrive. patience is key...

Rubens wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:46 pm Michael, I don't have any hopes for that in DP11. Also skeptical about the other thing I would like to see, general clippings remembering it's outputs (project clipping do remember).
I hope at least that they will add folders to MIDI device and bundles. Sorry to be pessimistic about the near future. The good thing is that we know that the things we want will eventually arrive. patience is key...

Without getting anyone in trouble, it was hinted at me that it was coming by someone who should know.


In the mean time you can use the Drum editor to name notes attached to articulations by assigning them to a Device Group.

Articulation Management might bring me back to DP. it is one thing I really really want, hence I use Logic and Cubase now. But I'd come back to DP in order to use chunks if they added good articulation management.

S1 added articulation management, but poorly; after years of requests for it...so... what will MOTU do? We shall see. if its at least as good as Cubase/Logic...then high probability I may go back to making DP my primary DAW.

Some other things I'd really like them to add which would reduce my DP annoyance meter:

1. Allow sequences to automate plugin parameters of plugins that are hosted in a V-rack (right now you can only automate MIDI that way).
2. Some kind of MIDI Scripter, similar as LogicPro. This would let me overcome any limitations in the articulation management if and when they don't implement something that meets my expectations, and other uses too.

I will wait and see. Never know.... DP10 was a complete dissapointment for me, they rolled out mostly a bunch of new features I had no interest in whatsoever. So we shall see...

dewdman42 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:14 amAllow sequences to automate plugin parameters of plugins that are hosted in a V-rack (right now you can only automate MIDI that way).

I assume this can't be done in DP with the current design. If you have two sequences playing at once in the song window and they overlap, and both send automation data, and then you have an automation lane added to the instrument track in the Vrack, what does DP do?

It would be OK for me if they just got rid of the Song window. It song can't handle multiple conductor tracks; only the one on the uppermost sequence, which makes it pretty much useless for me. I suppose they could also give the uppermost track priority for Vrack automation but it's clunky either way.

It can't be done now. There is no reason it couldn't be done with programming. its a major disadvantage to V-Racks right now. They route MIDI from all sequences to the V-Rack..but not plugin automation. It could be handled. Even potential conflicts as you mentioned can be handled if designed appropriately.

Automation data is really not much different then MIDI data, really there is no excuse for not routing automation data other then they haven't done it yet. Its just that MIDI is easily routed through their MIDI bundle routing...and automation data hasn't been accounted for. Hence if you use a V-Rack you can't properly automate any plugin parameters from plugins in the V-Rack.

dewdman42 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:35 pmHence if you use a V-Rack you can't properly automate any plugin parameters from plugins in the V-Rack.

You do know you can bring V-Racked instruments back into the sequence via an Aux, yes? Those can be automated just like any track in the sequence. Not exactly what you're looking for maybe, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware.

well recently I tried that, but it did not expose the plugin parameters to be automated... Sure you can automate the mixer of the sequence, but if you want to automate anything inside a V-racked plugin, you can't. This becomes even more of an issue when trying to use DP together with VePro.

dewdman42 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:55 pm well recently I tried that, but it did not expose the plugin parameters to be automated... Sure you can automate the mixer of the sequence, but if you want to automate anything inside a V-racked plugin, you can't

I see. You're referring to buss effects plugins in a V-Rack I guess, as opposed to MIDI instruments, or plugins inserted on v-racked instrument? I've only used V-Rack for instruments, and keep buss effects local in the sequence - since they don't take long to load. I can see how how having buss effects in the V-Rack, that all the Chunks could share might be cool though.

not at all. I'm referring to ANY plugins in the V-rack, including instruments, audio fx or anything else. I haven't found any way to expose the plugin parameters to sequence automation. If you know a way, please tell me and I'll try it.

Right. Automation, other than MIDI-automation, can not be sent to the V-Rack. But apart from automating buss effects in the V-Rack, everything else can be accomplished in the sequence. ...I think you know this but: if you want to automate, say, a compressor threshold on an instrument in the V-Rack, you would buss that instrument to an Aux in the sequence and insert the compressor there (where it can be automated) instead of inserting it on the instrument's channel in the V-Rack

no.

I already stated an important use case with VePro. VePro is an instrument plugin and many channels of instruments are funneled into it, you can do a complete mix inside VePro, but unfortunately DP can not be used to automate that mixer completely when its hosted in a V-rack. Only MIDI automation..but you would not be able to automate any plugins in that VePro mixer which don't have MIDI control (which is most audio plugins and in many cases it applies to instrument plugins as well..not to mention that the VePro mixer itself cannot be automated.

VePro has an automation mapping feature so technically its possible to map MIDI to plugin parameters, etc..but you lose resolution that way and its overly complicated.

In addition there are many instrument plugins which have numerous automation possibilities that are not exposed via MIDI automation, only through plugin automation. We are unable to use those features with a V-Rack due to the limitation I speak of.

Please stop debating with me, this is getting tiresome. V-Rack plugins can't be automated and I need that to happen in order to fully accept DP. End of discussion. Good day sir.