Page 2 of 3
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:08 pm
by Qucifer
Shooshie wrote:What Michael said. It should be DP6 or later, so that you can both open the file and convert the audio to .WAV files. DP8 will probably work, and then you can save it to Windows format.
Note: if the files have been stored on a non-Mac formatted drive (DOS, or MS Fat, for example) you may have lost the headers to the audio files. Best bet is to start with files that have never left the Mac domain, or if they have, they should have left the Mac in compressed archive format. If the headers are lost, there are ways to restore them, but someone else will have to walk you through that. I don't remember the app(s) or method.
So, I've got a power adapter on the way for that old G4 Powerbook. It looks like replacement optical drives are cheap for them, too--I'm not sure the optical drive in that system is any good.
That should get me a 10.4 system I can run DP6 on.
The files should have all of the "forks" and such intact, as long as OS X 10.4 can access an Appletalk server--I can get that working again pretty simply. The files were copied onto the Appletalk server from OS 9. So, they've never really left the OS 9 domain.
So, cross your fingers--I might be able to get this data recovered. I'll report back in a few days once the new power adapter arrives.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:58 am
by dixiechicken
DC here!
If these old project files/projects are g-zipped or tared.
Theres is no reason per se they should reside on a share on an
AppleTalk network.
If these projects reside on a linux/unix server somewhere and is shared through AppleTalk,
it's likely easier to access those shares through Samba or
OS-X built-in network functionality.
Provided that your isp/service-provider allows you to do this.
The conversion issues will remain of course - but if you can acces the shares, through a decent protocol (no offense) at least the downloads will go much faster
AppleTalk is hardly used anymore, I dont offhand know of any place, campus,
service/isp provider in Sweden that uses it.
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:08 am
by Shooshie
I doubt that I could even set up an Appleshare network anymore. (Appletalk was the data protocol that flowed through Appleshare hardware) After years of those adapters sitting in the bottom of drawers, I threw them out quite a long time ago.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:25 pm
by mikehalloran
It looks like replacement optical drives are cheap for them, too--I'm not sure the optical drive in that system is any good.
These are known for motherboard issues that cause internal optical drives to go down – usually doesn't affect externals.
If it doesn't work, use an external - FW for a PPC; USB for an Intel. Either will work as long as the Mac boots up but, if you have to boot from CD, it needs to be a FW external for a G4.
Hopefully, the optical works and there won't be a problem. I've had good luck with cleaning CD/DVD drives on machines that have sat a long time with one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Memorex-DVD-Lens- ... B00008EM7U
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:28 pm
by mikehalloran
Today on another forum I heard about Sheepshaver. It is supposed to let you emulate Mac OS all the way back to 7.5.2
http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/sheepshaver
I may just have to play with that. Between it and Macintosh Garden, running an old piece of hardware may not be necessary.
http://macintoshgarden.org/
In my copious spare time, of course, right?
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:54 pm
by Qucifer
dixiechicken wrote:If these old project files/projects are g-zipped or tared.
Theres is no reason per se they should reside on a share on an
AppleTalk network.
Using the AFP sharing has nothing to do with getting access to the files--I've got solid access to the archives.
The reason for using AFP/netatalk has to do with getting the data and resource forks presented back to the Mac correctly. The files are stored on the Linux server (and in my .tar.gz archives) as:
Which appears as 1 file to Mac OS over AFP/netatalk. So, netatalk will allow me to put those forks back together and get them back onto a Mac intact.
I know there are other representations of the two forked files, including:
I believe that's how they look on OS X?
So putting the files back on a linux server running netatalk is just about getting that data back into the Mac environment intact. If anyone has any advice about how to put those dual-forked files back together on OS X, without going back through AFP, I'd love to hear them. I don't suspect it's as simple as renaming '.AppleDouble/File' to '._File'--I suspect the '.AppleDouble/File' file format is specific to the netatalk implementation of AFP.
Once the projects are on OS X, I'm assuming I should be able to open them with DP based on the wisdom folks here have shared--it sounds like people open ancient DP projects with current software. I've got a copy of DP 6--hopefully that'll get the job done. I just need to get "stem style" exports of all of the parts of each project.
Worst case, I've also got a copy of DP 3 coming--I could get my hands on a really old OS 9 system and use DP 3 in a pinch (I'm pretty sure the projects were created with DP 3).
That power adapter should be here tomorrow. I've got an external USB optical drive, but I'm not sure if that'll work with that old G4 laptop. I definitely don't have a firewire optical drive. I didn't even know that was a thing!
I guess worst case scenario I can just get ahold of another old Mac system.
Lot of work to get these old projects revived! This would have been a lot simpler if I'd archived the projects natively on OS 9 using StuffIt (or similar) and just put those archives on my file server.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:35 pm
by mikehalloran
I've got an external USB optical drive, but I'm not sure if that'll work with that old G4 laptop
It should work. Sometimes you have to plug it in and turn it on before booting.
I definitely don't have a firewire optical drive. I didn't even know that was a thing!
It is if you have to boot from a CD or DVD.
Aside from an internal drive, the only externals that can boot are SCSI (pre Macs with Firewire), Firewire with PPCs and USB for Intel Macs (FW sometimes works but there are no guarantees and it usually doesn't after OS 10.6).
USB 3, Thunderbolt and eSATA can boot any Mac so equipped.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:04 pm
by Shooshie
Qucifer wrote:That power adapter should be here tomorrow. I've got an external USB optical drive, but I'm not sure if that'll work with that old G4 laptop. I definitely don't have a firewire optical drive. I didn't even know that was a thing!
I guess worst case scenario I can just get ahold of another old Mac system.
Lot of work to get these old projects revived! This would have been a lot simpler if I'd archived the projects natively on OS 9 using StuffIt (or similar) and just put those archives on my file server.
I think a simpler approach would be to get Dr. Who's Tardis, take a laptop with DP 8 back in time to the recording sessions, record them in DP8, and come back to the future. Maybe not as likely to happen, but definitely simpler!!!
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:14 pm
by bayswater
mikehalloran wrote:Today on another forum I heard about Sheepshaver.
You need an install disk for the versions of the OS you want to run, and you need an image of the Apple ROM which "may be hard to find", as they say in the manual.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:36 pm
by Qucifer
Shooshie wrote:I think a simpler approach would be to get Dr. Who's Tardis, take a laptop with DP 8 back in time to the recording sessions, record them in DP8, and come back to the future. Maybe not as likely to happen, but definitely simpler!!!
I'd be down for that.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:58 pm
by bayswater
Shooshie wrote:I think a simpler approach would be to get Dr. Who's Tardis, take a laptop with DP 8 back in time to the recording sessions, record them in DP8, and come back to the future. Maybe not as likely to happen, but definitely simpler!!!
Have you seen the sort of trouble he gets into doing that?
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:05 pm
by Shooshie
bayswater wrote:Shooshie wrote:I think a simpler approach would be to get Dr. Who's Tardis, take a laptop with DP 8 back in time to the recording sessions, record them in DP8, and come back to the future. Maybe not as likely to happen, but definitely simpler!!!
Have you seen the sort of trouble he gets into doing that?
Have you ever connected an Appleshare network to Ethernet?
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:11 pm
by bayswater
Shooshie wrote:Have you ever connected an Appleshare network to Ethernet?
I did actually try that one in an office of hundreds of PCs and two Macs running OS 7. It turned out much as you'd expect.
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:22 am
by dixiechicken
DC here!
Using the AFP sharing has nothing to do with getting access to the files--I've got solid access to the archives.
The reason for using AFP/netatalk has to do with getting the data and resource forks presented back to the Mac correctly. The files are stored on the Linux server (and in my .tar.gz archives) as:
Yes then I understand but that does not have anything to do with AppleTalk
AppleTalk is just network protcol - for transporting data.
Once your old projects were zipped into an archive with the data and resource fork in it. I should not matter which network protocol is used to
transport that archive.
You dont need AppleTalk for getting the resourcr fork back intact.
Unless I'm missing something else here? (entirely possible of course
)
You need and Apple operatingsystem, filesystem and programs that can handle both forks when try to un-zip/un-tar your archives.
Any ways the best of luck solving your problem - let us know how it goes
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
Re: Retrieving Data from Old Digital Performer Projects
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:38 am
by stubbsonic
Assuming you are able to open the files in some version of DP on your mac, you would need a few steps (which you may already know).
If the audio tracks don't already start at the beginning, and are not contiguous/continuous-- then I usually put a tiny region on the downbeat, and do a merge audio on all the tracks. That way they are ready to drop into another DAW. You can export them or convert the SDII's with other programs that access them.
Of course you would export the MIDI tracks as SMF. Wouldn't hurt to take a bunch of notes and get some screen capture images to help you reconstruct from the other DAW.