Here's why I think DP ought to correct for "natural scroll"

[Killahurts]

Anything anyone can do on those little things, I can do better, faster, easier and more effectively in my computer. Thank you.

Got to agree with Felix here.. Well, who can disagree?

I wouldn't call the devices "toys" necessarily, but I would call them.. tools.

My iPhone? My Computer?

My Shovel? My recording console?

[MDesigner]

Anything anyone can do on those little things, I can do better, faster, easier and more effectively in my computer. Thank you.

Got to agree with Felix here.. Well, who can disagree?

I can. I'd like to see you control the Friedlander Violin without TouchOSC. This is the TouchOSC custom interface for it:

http://i.imgur.com/WIBxi6e.jpg

How would you use this violin better, faster, easier, and more effectively on a desktop computer? As opposed to TouchOSC on the iPad.

[FMiguelez]

Wow. I was trying to agree to disagree, or to find a graceful way to end this nonsense, and now you want to keep arguing about my opinion of iPhones?

"bloated, annoying and bright graphics"
"iPhones are kewl and useful?"
"Any toy can be used in front of an audience"

I think the graphics look bloated and annoying.
I think iPhones are kewl and useful.
And any toy can be used in front of an uneducated audience.

What's wrong with those assertions, exactly?
Why did you quote that anyway? What are you hoping to prove?


What are we discussing? Oh, yes. What I think of iPhones...

Some people find them essential and amazingly useful.
They may be all that to them, but not to me. They can do great things, but nothing that an old crappy computer can't.

I also find a lot (not all) of the whole culture behind iStuff as dull, rude, idiotic, boring, incapable of a meaningful conversation, and with no original thoughts inside their iHeads with 5-second time-span attention limits.

Nope, don't think I took any of the comments wrong! You have a distorted view that iDevices are toys, for showing off in front of audiences.

You misunderstood. I meant "you took my comment the wrong way" as me saying: "I didn't mean to offend you or your way of working", that's all (this was literally written in my last sentence, BTW).

But now that you mention it and insist on it, you think I have a "distorted" view according to what? According to your objective "true" view?

So anyone who disagrees with your views is wrong? What is this, fifth grade schoolyard politics?

If you had made such comments in front of professional composers at a conference such as NAMM, some would've laughed and some would've been offended.

I AM a professional composer, so anything I would say would be among peers.

I don't think any successful musician would have such a thin skin to be offended by such a comment. Some might laugh, some would agree with me, some wouldn't care at all, and some would probably hate me. So what? That would apply to ANYTHING where more than one view or opinion can exist, like... basically anything.

And I don't care if they would be offended. I still regard iPhones as useful nice toys, because, to me, that's exactly what they are.

"I have nothing against Cubase. I've never used it, so I wouldn't know."

You should apply this way of thinking to the other applications which are you are irrationally judging (TouchOSC, Lemur, etc).

Strawman.
Can you quote where I said anything about TouchOSC or Lemur specifically?

I once saw the original Lemur interface and I thought it was nice for the studio, but awfully expensive. Do I have to like the iPhone version? My current MIDI controller works great for me. I like real faders and real knobs and buttons.

And that quoted comment does not apply to your desperate strawman because I've used iToys since they hit the market, so I know them as much as you do. I'm just not as impressed with them as you apparently are. I don't find them useful AT ALL for studio applications because I already have a full professional studio with computers where I do all my writing (but I admit I love DP's app for controlling the GUI if I need to record myself).

I like some iPhone apps. Some are truly remarkable, but given the option, I'll always prefer the computer versions with the huge screens, processing power, powerful programs and real keys.

Thank you, but no. I don't wish to use an iDAW, or an iFinale or an iVE Pro with iSamples and iPerformers.
If you like the iPhone so much, why don't you give up your computers? iPhones can do that and much more after all, right?

Again. Anything anyone can do on an iPhone I can do faster, easier and more effectively in a computer, even a laptop. Thankfully, I don't need those things for any of my productions. All my needs are more than covered by any of my slaves or master computers, with software that is a million times more capable than iFingers.

So do I have your permission to think of iPhones as toys, and to prefer to use my computers when I write music over iStuff?
Please let me know, so I can sleep peacefully!

[MDesigner]

I like some iPhone apps. Some are truly remarkable, but given the option, I'll always prefer the computer versions with the huge screens, processing power, powerful programs and real keys.

Yes! This was all you had to say. Not dismissing all iDevices as toys, and implying that people use them to show off in front of audiences. Those are ridiculous statements.

I have to conclude my participation on this thread.

[FMiguelez]

I like some iPhone apps. Some are truly remarkable, but given the option, I'll always prefer the computer versions with the huge screens, processing power, powerful programs and real keys.

Yes! This was all you had to say. Not dismissing all iDevices as toys, and implying that people use them to show off in front of audiences. Those are ridiculous statements.

Is that how understood what I wrote? To show off????? It was quite the contrary (unless you think a jumping human monkey has anything to show off...)

You make them sound as ridiculous statements because you are using another strawman! Again!

Quote me where I wrote that or retract.

I have to conclude my participation on this thread.

Oh, no! Just when I was starting to have some fun? Come on!

I'm writing this on my... iPad, BTW!!! (How annoying. I wish I had my laptop on).

[MDesigner]

Stop using toys to post on forums!

Yes! This was all you had to say. Not dismissing all iDevices as toys, and implying that people use them to show off in front of audiences. Those are ridiculous statements.

Is that how understood what I wrote? To show off????? It was quite the contrary (unless you think a jumping human monkey has anything to show off...)

You make them sound as ridiculous statements because you are using another strawman! Again!

Quote me where I wrote that or retract.

Well, ok. I'm posting because I don't want you to think I just made stuff up to slander you or anything.

You: Since when do pro products are expected to behave like their toy counterparts?
Me: ..we can't have a position of "pro products" vs "toys" (I assume you're referring to Cubase)
You: I was referring to the iOS devices.

And then I gave links to various music related iOS apps in order to show that there are serious musical applications that professionals use (not toys), to which you said:

Any toy can be used in front of an audience. That doesn't make them anything special, particularly when most of the typical modern uneducated masses are so easily impressed by almost anything

I had never mentioned audience before, or impressing anyone. The tools have nothing to do with that.. I'm not sure where that came from. Unless maybe you thought I earned my living as a DJ or something? These are things I use at my studio. I guarantee there are things I can do on my iPad that my desktop computer CANNOT do, not without me dropping hundreds of dollars on a small mixing console with encoder knobs, an XY pad, etc.

I broke my rule on arguing on the Internet. It was a mistake.

[FMiguelez]

Stop using toys to post on forums!

I broke my rule on arguing on the Internet. It was a mistake.

Oh, you mean like that cartoon where the wife tells a guy to come to bed, but he can't because "someone's wrong in the internet"??

It's all fine, Sam. It's all in good spirit


I don't know you, but you strike me as a nice and polite guy.

I can tell you that I'll keep my eyes opened, and if newer iPhones or cooler apps ever make me change my mind, I will happily retract and probably start using them right away for studio things

[MDesigner]

Yes, of course, no hard feelings. It's just the Internet, after all.
Cheers, and thanks for answering my newbie DP questions on my other posts.

[FMiguelez]

Hey, I found some great music in your website, Sam!

Very nice credits as well. Congrats!

You didn't use your iPhone for composing that nice music, did you?

Just kidding!



Feel free to ask as many DP questions as you like. I really think you will LOVE this DAW, and in due time, it will feel as second nature to you.

Question, just out of curiosity: What made you leave Cubase in favor of DP?
Before choosing DP, what were your candidate DAWs? And what was it that sealed the deal for you with DP instead of them?

[MDesigner]

Thanks Felix!

Sequencers.. whew, long story. I started off on Windows/Sonar long ago, pre-2006. I think it was around 2006 or 2007 I switched to Mac/Logic Pro. I got sick of blue screen crashes on Windows, I think it was my crappy M-Audio card, it didn't like my system. Was very happy on Mac/Logic for quite some time, but I grew tired of Logic's issues (too many to list). So I switched to Cubase about 3 years ago. Really liked it, but there are some long-standing bugs that really bother me (their video engine is terrible). And lately some other bugs with regards to MIDI chase/automation have come up, and they are total deal-breakers for me.

A couple videos I made showing these bugs:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/121 ... n_Bug3.mp4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/121 ... %20Bug.mp4

Steinberg is in no hurry to fix these, but they are causing me a lot of problems, so I'm done with Cubase. Of course I'm too busy to just switch so I have to transition slowly.

I chose DP because the demo kinda sold me on it. Plus I'm doing more film work lately, and the video support in DP is amazing. Chunks are awesome, perfect for working with film, or having multiple revisions of a video game cue in one file.

So that's where I am now. I'm doing my best to learn DP, still having trouble with even simple things (like, is there a single key command to solo the current track? how do I arm multiple tracks for recording?)

But I'm probably gonna buy these two videos and set aside a day or two:

http://www.groove3.com/str/Digital-Perf ... ained.html
http://www.groove3.com/str/Digital-Perf ... anced.html

Hope that answers your Q.

[FMiguelez]

Cool. Thanks for sharing that.

I usually find it interesting to see DP through other people's eyes.

So that's where I am now. I'm doing my best to learn DP, still having trouble with even simple things (like, is there a single key command to solo the current track? how do I arm multiple tracks for recording?)

The default Solo command requires a bit of hand gymnastics, but you can change it to anything you like. Do this in the Commands window (Shift-L).

You will probably be a little surprised by DP's unique way to treat solo tracks, but you will most likely appreciate it and get used to it (you basically get 3 different states of solo or play-enabled tracks). The Solo Front-Most Window command is very useful (option click on the Solo button on the transport for easy access to this).

For record-enabling multiple tracks, you have some options:
If the tracks are next to each other, simply click on the record button of one and drag up or down spanning as many tracks as necessary (solo, mute and record automation buttons work like this as well, even in the mixer).
If the tracks are inside a folder, click the record button at the root level (same applies to all the other buttons at this level).
If they are not contiguous, you'll have to hunt for them individually, I'm afraid...

That was for audio tracks. Doing this with MIDI requires checking an item in one of the menus (I don't remember by heart exactly where, but it's easily to record-enable multiple MIDI tracks in one step, IIRC).

But I'm probably gonna buy these two videos and set aside a day or two:

http://www.groove3.com/str/Digital-Perf ... ained.html
http://www.groove3.com/str/Digital-Perf ... anced.html

Those are great video-tutorials!

I'm sure they will get you to a very comfortable DP level.

And don't forget about this very place! MOTUNation is simply awesome, full of knowledgeable and friendly members who enjoy talking about music stuff and sharing information. Some of us can be a little opinionated at times, but it's always in good spirit.

Have fun with DP!

[Shooshie]

... and having read all that, I must in the end agree that MOTU should compensate for "natural" scrolling with a preference check-box.



Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

I switched to natural scrolling a while ago, and after a short adjustment period, I was fine with it. If I switch to a different computer it only takes a few seconds to revert to my much more deeply engrained "sliding the window" (traditional) scrolling.

It had little to do with device scrolling. And honestly, I don't see one as being more logical than the other.

What is an iOS device, but a small computer with a display that doubles as a track-pad (and a few other little doodads)? iOS devices represent cutting edge miniaturization, integration of features, and a different kind of price structure that makes apps less expensive. They are the harbingers of this new era of monopolies, conflicts of interest, invasions of privacy, and rampant commercialism. The existence of some incredibly cheap & powerful synths doesn't stop us from seeing through the worst of it.

I am equally fascinated and annoyed by my iPad. But if you asked me to give up my computer or my iPad, I would not hesitate for even a nano-second to hand over my iPad.

[Dan Worley]

I seriously cannot tell what the difference is between "natural" and "unnatural scrolling." My brain knows something isn't the same, but it can't figure out what's going on. It makes me feel kind of weak and sick using natural scrolling. Kind of like motion sickness. Weird!

[cuttime]

Try using a mouse upside-down if you really want to scramble those hemispheres.

BTW, I smell this thread being moved to the "Off Topic" forum.