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bayswater wrote:From the answer, I take it the DP specific development would include hardware, not just software. Hard to image that a unit designed to be updated via software as OSs and DAWs develop would need a minimum of $2.5M in gross sales to justify software support to make it work with DP. On the other hand, if it is not easily updated or modified via software changes, it's going to be quite costly to keep one of these running for any amount of time.

It's not the gross number that is important there, but the margin he makes. That what pays for the extra development and generates whatever ultimately goes to us bottom line. If his margins are tight, that $2.5 million may only be contributing $200K to the bottomline and it's some portion of that $200K that needs to fund the extra development costs. Say it takes a team of three 6 months to get it done at an average salary of $100K (programmers and engineers). Their loaded costs are closer to $140K (taxes+benefits). 140K x 1.5 man years = $210,000. He would actually lose $10K in that situation.

The above is a gross over simplification, but the point is the $2.5M may not be as much as it seems depending on cost structure and margins.

On MOTU’s side, I hope the reason they can;t hire that “fancy” ad firm isn;t because the music industry is kind of dying? And there isn;t enough potential income to warrant spending money on ads like that?
I don;t know. I don;t like blaming MOTU. I want to understand. It’s all speculation. WHat isn’t very “speculation” is the “apparant” movement of DP into 5th place in a game of 5 or 6.

The move to Windows is an effort to expand the user base...though that is a mighty tall hill to climb. The development must have been costly and the support costs must be higher. I wish MOTU a lot of luck with it.

DP does seem like a well kept secret these days. I think a few relatively minor changes additions would bring it "up-to-date" (note the quotes) with other offerings, e.g., more object oriented/clip style editing options. And better marketing to explain its superiority in other areas (chunks, anyone?) would help.

But that isn't what this thread is about, so....back to our regularly scheduled programming!

nk_e, I understand the idea behind your numbers. But two things: 200K return on a capital investment of $2.5M is a non starter. Unless its a labour of love, the project would never see the light of day. Second, $210K for the development of drivers etc. for one DAW tells you the box is requires way too much customization to get it working in specific situations, or that it needs hardware mods to get it to work with DP.

bayswater wrote:nk_e, I understand the idea behind your numbers. But two things: 200K return on a capital investment of $2.5M is a non starter. Unless its a labour of love, the project would never see the light of day. Second, $210K for the development of drivers etc. for one DAW tells you the box is requires way too much customization to get it working in specific situations, or that it needs hardware mods to get it to work with DP.

No arguments. I have no idea what the numbers are, how fat or thin the margins, or what is "break even" for Slate. Just wanted to say that $2.5M isn't the number to look at to figure out their go/no go decision...it's likely something a lot less. WHAT the number actually is, I have nary a clue....

I hope it doesn't need HW mods (and in one of his videos, he says that everything is SW based and so updatable). That would be a sure path to quick obsolescence if it did.

nk_e wrote:

bayswater wrote:I hope it doesn't need HW mods (and in one of his videos, he says that everything is SW based and so updatable). That would be a sure path to quick obsolescence if it did.

Yes, that would be insane. But as TDH points out now and then, DP is a little different from other DAWs. And if a DP version was released, the cost of the initial release raises the question of the cost of subsequent updates to prevent obsolescence.

I learned that lesson with M-Audio whose earlier converters put too much function in hardware and not enough in software. When new Macs and OS versions came out, they were not always able to update the drivers, and you were left to buy a newer piece of hardware.

Ideally, a piece of equipment like this would be easily updated, or even programmable by a reasonably experienced user to work with a variety of applications.

I think it may be easily update able (though not by the user).

I'm waiting for it to support other DAWs period. Can't seem to find any info on when that will be.

I hope he makes a friggin mint from this. It looks pretty cool.

nk_e wrote:I hope he makes a friggin mint from this. It looks pretty cool.

Amen.

Hi guys, it's nice to back at MOTUNATION. Thanks for the interest in the RAVEN.

I will admit in full disclosure that it wasn't until coming back here that I realized the sheer number of DP guys who continue to use this great DAW to make music.

The RAVEN is a wonderful way to mix and edit in a very efficient way, and I want to support DP. But I will need a lot of help from you guys.

First, I need you to hit up the higher ups and MOTU and let them know you want this. You are the most important thing to them, and I know a company like MOTU will do what it takes to meet the demands of their customers.

On our end, we'd need to talk with MOTU programmers so that we can optimize the DP mixer so that the faders are multi touch. Then we can create some custom toolbars that would communicate with the MIDI and EDIT windows.

The more that MOTU works WITH my developers, the easier, quicker, and less expensive this is. I think that with MOTU cooperation, we can create a way for DP to work seamlessly in a multitouch environment, turning the DAW itself into an efficient control surface that will help you work faster, and more creatively.

So let's go! I'm in.

Cheers,
Steven

Very cool Steven. My interest is in the larger Raven. I wouldn't purchase if it didn't work with DP, period. My Matrix console is an OK controller, but it's MCU. The Raven seems like it would give me the control I needed, especially with plugins, but..

I was supposed to go down to GC Pro and check one out, but my friend there says no DP, only Protools, so I haven't been exactly bustin' butt to get down there.

I thought the Raven was supposed to work with every major DAW out there.. I guess DP is not major, though I thought it was until now.

Hi, as I said, we want to work with DP, but I really need help from DP users. First of all, a sign up sheet for interested parties in the MTi and MTX would be a massive help, as would some participation with MOTU.

Cheers,
Steven

Steven Slate wrote:Hi guys, it's nice to back at MOTUNATION. Thanks for the interest in the RAVEN.

I will admit in full disclosure that it wasn't until coming back here that I realized the sheer number of DP guys who continue to use this great DAW to make music.

The RAVEN is a wonderful way to mix and edit in a very efficient way, and I want to support DP. But I will need a lot of help from you guys.

First, I need you to hit up the higher ups and MOTU and let them know you want this. You are the most important thing to them, and I know a company like MOTU will do what it takes to meet the demands of their customers.

On our end, we'd need to talk with MOTU programmers so that we can optimize the DP mixer so that the faders are multi touch. Then we can create some custom toolbars that would communicate with the MIDI and EDIT windows.

The more that MOTU works WITH my developers, the easier, quicker, and less expensive this is. I think that with MOTU cooperation, we can create a way for DP to work seamlessly in a multitouch environment, turning the DAW itself into an efficient control surface that will help you work faster, and more creatively.

So let's go! I'm in.

Cheers,
Steven

I'm late to this discussion. Steve, thank you so much for jumping in and getting in on the conversation. I want to say a couple of things for the benefit of members here:

1) Steven is right that it has to make sense financially for him to support DP. He runs a business, not a charity. We all understand that business that are run like charities don't survive very long. Given the current economic and regulatory climate (especially in California) my utmost admiration goes out to anybody who's able to have the kind of success Steve has had. I know it's the result of a lot of hard work.

2) And one small thing. I know Steven is sincere about his interest to support DP. He's been really helpful here at this forum in the past and is always gracious and has time for people when I've seen him at NAMM. He also, by the way, has even donated software plug-ins as door prizes for our annual MOTU-MAC Dinner that we hold each year at NAMM. It may not seem like much, but it's tangible evidence of his support and goodwill toward DP users.

I know I'll pass this topic along to the people I know at MOTU. I'm sure MOTU would want to do what they can to help work with Slate Digital to get this done if there's a demand for it. There has to be a good indication that there are enough DP users out there that will put their money where their mouth is and buy one for it to make sense for Slate to support DP.

Hi guys, I'm looking forward to speaking more with MOTU, and along with your support, I'm now confident that we can release a DP RAVEN control software in 2014.

Cheers,
Steven

Fantastique

Thanks, Steven, for your responses!

Nice to see another "main man" on the forum.

I'd have to go back to DP to actually count, but I think I have at least 5 of your products.

Very pleased and down the road I might also be interested in Raven.

Thanks...

Buzzy