current Mac Mini DP torture test; anyone done one?

[EMRR]

Yes, the ole' G5 can hardly keep up with GUI metering in DP on intensive sessions, it gets all stuttery and you can't see any useful information. Ever seen the Leveler plug look like a VU meter with no pointer? That's what I see pretty frequently.

[Nibiru]

Totally. Thanks for the input Mike! But with all that said, the Mini must be a better config than the 2008 MBP I have, no? I mean I don't really have many screen redraw issues with what I have now. So I guess what getting at is, will the Mini i7 be a worthy investment if I'm looking to a least double my performance? Also, does it have a fan? And how loud does it get? My MBP fans are always running high when I'm workin in a heavy session.

[mikehalloran]

Minis and iMacs do have fans. The only comparison I can make is between the 2010 and 2011 27" iMacs we have and my daughter's 2009 MacBook. The 2011 iMac is whisper quiet while my 2010 reaches the barely noticeable when I give it a workout. My daughter's MacBook gets warm and the fan makes its presence known - definitely louder than my 2010.

[ChrisByrd]

I'm looking to replace my 24" 2008 iMac fairly soon - it's starting to show its age a bit, and I can't expand the memory beyond 4GB. I was going to post a list of questions, but I think most have been answered in this thread

The Mini does look tempting, but from Mike's comments it looks like another iMac would suit me better. I'd love a Pro but my budget is tight, and I have been very happy with my existing iMac.

One thing I'm not sure about is which size screen to go for. Bigger would be better, but there's a big cost difference and I could put money towards a fast processor with the 21.5" model. Has anyone been able to compare the two when using DP?

[bayswater]

You can actually put 6 GB in this iMac, not that 6 will do much for you.

I compared the 21 and 27 iMac when I got mine, but using Logic in the Apple store which they had loaded on all the iMac at the time. For some reason they wouldn't let me install DP on it.

I got the 27 as a economic substitute for a 30" monitor. With DP at the highest screen resolution I have to sit in a very specific spot to be able to make out everything on the screen, but it works ok, and it is easy to lower the resolution when necessary.

The price difference if you get the i7 processor is only $300, but you could spend that on an inexpensive second 23" monitor, if your setup would accommodate it.

[HCMarkus]

I have been seeing used 4,1 4-core 2.66 Mac Pros for $800. That's what I bought when I moved from PPC to intel last year, but I never tried DP on my new machine until after upgrading it with to a 5,1 with hex 3.33 CPU, 24gb RAM and ATI 5770 GPU.

My G5 was the last and greatest made, the Quad 2.5. It served me very well in my studio machine room for years, and I still use it for other work. That said, the new machine completely blew it out of the water, as reflected in the difference between the two machines' Geekbench scores... 3k+ to 13k+ (32-bit).

When I put my current MP together, prices were higher and options more limited than at present. From my reading I understand a number of PC video cards are now supported (no boot screen but otherwise 100%) under Mountain Lion. I paid $1150 for my 4,1. As noted above, they are now running in the $800 range. With the introduction of the new MP, used prices will drop further.

Because RAM is considerably more expensive for the 3,1, I recommend 4,1 or 5,1. Also, any 4,1 can be updated to a 5,1 by a simple EFI hack that is free and takes all of 10 minutes. It is unlikely Apple will discontinue OS support for the 5,1 Mac Pro (which is as of today the shipping MP) for a number of years.

You can go the iMac or Mini route, and I know Thunderbolt options will eventually increase and prices decline, but don't fail to consider the plethora of used Mac Pros, built like tanks, extremely expandable and upgradeable, and completely compatible with existing hardware.

[ChrisByrd]

Thanks, I'd not really considered a used Mac Pro but the prices do look good, so I'll look at this option as well. I guess there could be even more on the market once the new machine hits the market, and I'm probably looking at the autumn before I replace my iMac. Expandability and longevity are attractive features.

[mikehalloran]

Chris,

The 2008 iMac does not run all parts of OS 10.8; the 2009 does.
http://www.apple.com/osx/specs/

The word on 10.9 is that, if a current machine is running 10.8, it will run 10.9 so, while this isn't gospel, probably time to move on up. Current street price on a 2008 24" iMac is around $500,

I take care of a lot of school computers and most of these are acquired by parents groups and donated. I am begging them - no more 2008 iMacs. But that's for school. 21.5" iMacs are just great for young eyes doing English papers, Internet research, science projects, math etc.

OK, having said that...

Do yourself a favor. The least amount of iMac I like to recommend for DP is the October 2009 i7. Yes, the i5 works as does the Core2 Duo but the FPU performance of the i7 makes a difference with DP. BTW, the 10/2009 i7 comes in only one flavor and that is 27". You can install up to 32G RAM in it - 16G is fine for most DP 8 users.

2009-2012 21.5" iMacs are different than the 27" siblings. Processers, drive availability, RAM upgrades (if at all) and yes, screen size all make a difference.

BTW, I don't dislike the Mini. I just like the iMac more as I have explained earlier.

Still for heavy lifting, lots of VIs etc. the Mac Pro is the ideal machine. The v.3.1 has a lot of life in it meaning that hardware and software support will be around for quite awhile. The current processor family is the 4.1.

[ChrisByrd]

Thanks Mike, that's very helpful.

One thing I'd not considered is that I might be able to sell my current iMac to get some extra funds. It started out with Leopard so has not done badly making it up to ML - I think you're right that it's time to move on though. I'll be down in Brighton at the end of July so will be able to visit the Apple store there and see the new iMacs in the flesh. I suspect that a 21.5" screen will be too small having got used to 24", and there are the other advantages to the 27" iMac that you pointed out, including the option of an i7 processor on the latest models. Is it still considered best to go to Crucial for extra RAM rather than buy from Apple?

[mikehalloran]

Thanks Mike, that's very helpful.

One thing I'd not considered is that I might be able to sell my current iMac to get some extra funds. It started out with Leopard so has not done badly making it up to ML - I think you're right that it's time to move on though. I'll be down in Brighton at the end of July so will be able to visit the Apple store there and see the new iMacs in the flesh. I suspect that a 21.5" screen will be too small having got used to 24", and there are the other advantages to the 27" iMac that you pointed out, including the option of an i7 processor on the latest models. Is it still considered best to go to Crucial for extra RAM rather than buy from Apple?

If looking at the 2012 iMac, the 21.5" is not user upgradable at all, not even the RAM.

With the 27", for the first time that I can recall, RAM costs less if ordered with the Mac than added later through aftermarket sources. Not true if the same in the UK but is in the States.

The 2012 has USB 3 ports. These are much faster than USB 2 or FireWire, as fast as eSATA with 7200rpm drives (faster than eSATA with SSDs).

[ChrisByrd]

If looking at the 2012 iMac, the 21.5" is not user upgradable at all, not even the RAM.

With the 27", for the first time that I can recall, RAM costs less if ordered with the Mac than added later through aftermarket sources. Not true if the same in the UK but is in the States.

The 2012 has USB 3 ports. These are much faster than USB 2 or FireWire, as fast as eSATA with 7200rpm drives (faster than eSATA with SSDs).

Thanks - yes, I've been looking at specs and have dropped the 21.5" from my list. Apart from everything else I think moving to a smaller screen would be too frustrating. I've just discovered that, if I wait until October when I start an Open University course, I should be able to get an education discount on new Macs. This definitely makes buying extra memory with the Mac worthwhile, and should help towards a faster processor.

USB 3 would great - the WD FireWire drive I use for projects and sample libraries is almost five years old. Though it's still working fine I might retire it to lighter duties.

[dpg4macman]

I use a new Mac Mini 2.5GHz i5 16g ram and it works great. 64 bit DP operation is smooth with well over 20 audio tracks all with EQ's, compressors, etc...along with several VI's running. Highly recommended if your recording small sessions or a home studio owner. If your running a pro level studio I would move up to the new iMac or Mac Pro.

Best of luck,

mvh

[ChrisByrd]

Thanks, that's good to know as I'm still saving and investigating at the moment. I want to run some fairly big orchestral templates so am tending more towards an iMac or possibly a used Mac Pro. I've not properly investigated the freezing options in DP yet though.

[merkaba22]

I arrive at this thread after exploring the current Mac Mini with a 250 GB Samsung 830/840 added to the otherwise slow 5400 HD for rolling a "fusion drive" since the Mini's, unlike the iMacs, offer optical in and out ... the 256 GB Samsung offers a better ratio to the internal (Apple is only offering one with 128 GB) and is seen a preferable.

Is there any reason that this will be upsetting for DP in general and/or create other than a low-maintence file system in particular?

[mikehalloran]

I arrive at this thread after exploring the current Mac Mini with a 250 GB Samsung 830/840 added to the otherwise slow 5400 HD for rolling a "fusion drive" since the Mini's, unlike the iMacs, offer optical in and out ... the 256 GB Samsung offers a better ratio to the internal (Apple is only offering one with 128 GB) and is seen a preferable.

Is there any reason that this will be upsetting for DP in general and/or create other than a low-maintence file system in particular?

Get the i7. Otherwise heat is your issue with the Mini which is why Apple won't offer anything faster than a 5400 laptop drive. Apple does offer the 1T Fusion drive. Use an audio interface and the missing input on the iMac isn't an issue. The superior graphics makes it the better machine. The Mini is still a good machine for DP.

I hadn't noticed that Apple had removed the Audio In from the 2012 iMac. I still use that though I could route everything through my 828mkII. So Apple assumes we all use audio interfaces now? I suppose that we do.