Shoot out , DP 8 vrs VE Pro

[kgdrum]

SO if I read correctly, I can just switch my comp to 64 bit anytime without an issue and those programs that can benefit, WILL benefit, and those that are 32 bit, won;t be bothered?

Then WHY would anyone ever want to have the comp start up in 32 bit?

BINGO!!!
If you have a Mac that can boot in the 64bit Kernel,set it to boot that way always and forget about it.

[FutureLegends]

Then WHY would anyone ever want to have the comp start up in 32 bit?

I believe things like hardware drivers live in the kernel as well.
Eventually machines like mine that won't boot in 64bit kernel won't be able to use new hardware as developers stop making 32bit drivers available.
And old hardware will be useless unless the developers make 64bit drivers available. That is the case with the UAD1 cards, I believe. No 64bit drivers.

[frankymax]

Yep, that's my problem too. I have a 2007 Mac Pro that works fine but is a 32 bit machine. Snow Leopard is as far as I can go from what's I've understood- maybe Lion but for sure I can't go to Mtn Lion, so it's the end of the road for me in a year or so with this Mac, which is sad cuz it's been such a workhorse and a great machine. So, what did I do? I just had a Windows 7 i7 6 Core 3.2 gHz machine built and I'm getting it set up to run DP8 in Windows for when that time comes! I know, this is an insane idea, especially for me, who has been pretty much Mac only since 1986 (with the exception of some Gigastudio computers that were windows), but this PC is the equivalent of a killer Mac Tower and a fraction of the cost ($2k as opposed to @$8-9k if it were a Mac). I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems Windows 7 is pretty rock solid- I've got VE Pro 5 installed and Sibelius and Finale and it's really fast; the libraries I have on my Mac load up in VEP5 in a fraction of the time on the PC. Part of my reasoning for doing this is that I feel like Apple is becoming more of a consumer gadget company, and they make all their money off iPhones, iPads, etc and that pro computer audio and video programs may not be as supported down the road by Apple. Now I'm probably wrong about this but I couldn't see replacing my Mac tower with another $8k Mac when I could get the equivalent in a PC for $2.3k. I'll probably be moaning about this decision down the road but right now I'm pretty psyched on this PC!
Anyway, I'll be posting my success or lack of between DP and VEP5 when the Windows version comes out.

[HCMarkus]

Yep, that's my problem too. I have a 2007 Mac Pro that works fine but is a 32 bit machine. Snow Leopard is as far as I can go from what's I've understood- maybe Lion but for sure I can't go to Mtn Lion, so it's the end of the road for me in a year or so with this Mac, which is sad cuz it's been such a workhorse and a great machine. So, what did I do? I just had a Windows 7 i7 6 Core 3.2 gHz machine built and I'm getting it set up to run DP8 in Windows for when that time comes! I know, this is an insane idea, especially for me, who has been pretty much Mac only since 1986 (with the exception of some Gigastudio computers that were windows), but this PC is the equivalent of a killer Mac Tower and a fraction of the cost ($2k as opposed to @$8-9k if it were a Mac). I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems Windows 7 is pretty rock solid- I've got VE Pro 5 installed and Sibelius and Finale and it's really fast; the libraries I have on my Mac load up in VEP5 in a fraction of the time on the PC. Part of my reasoning for doing this is that I feel like Apple is becoming more of a consumer gadget company, and they make all their money off iPhones, iPads, etc and that pro computer audio and video programs may not be as supported down the road by Apple. Now I'm probably wrong about this but I couldn't see replacing my Mac tower with another $8k Mac when I could get the equivalent in a PC for $2.3k. I'll probably be moaning about this decision down the road but right now I'm pretty psyched on this PC!
Anyway, I'll be posting my success or lack of between DP and VEP5 when the Windows version comes out.

Look forward to your results Frank.

I must say, however, that unless you buy your RAM and HDs from Apple, the price differential may be a tad overstated.

Personally, in light of the DP announcement of Windows support, I thought about going to Windows, but instead bought a used 2009 MacPro and upgraded it to a 2010 six-core 3.33, at a base cost of under $1,800 for the Mac and CPU. I couldn't get Sandy/Ivy Bridge (like I am sure you will on your new machine) so my performance will probably be somewhat less than yours (especially if you overclock - but do you really want that potential headache?) BUT I will be running the OS I know so well. I just want a machine I can use for 5 years, and think my (32 Bit) Geekbench score of 13,800 will get me there.

Your point about Apple becoming a gadget company is well-taken. Things have certainly changed from the days when the niche markets of audio and video production were important to Apple. The 2009 may be the last Mac I'll buy to serve as my studio music machine. I do look forward to hearing of your experiences with DP and Windows, and wish you the best as you charge that hill!

[dewdman42]

its going to be very interesting to watch this forum and see how many DP users either move to Windows, or Windows users that discover DP and see how things evolve from here.

I changed from PC to mac a few years back mainly for DP. Just about everything else I use is available on the PC and a few things I use aren't available on the mac actually, though I got them to work with wine, etc. But being the unix head that I am, I fell absolutely in love with OSX. I can hardly imagine going back to regedit and yearly OS rebuilds now.

That being said, the points about cost for hardware are probably a bit overstated yes, but not incorrect. A few years back I built a hackintosh for kicks, for less than $1500 I built a quad core machine that overclocked to something very much faster then the fastest imacs and almost as fast as mac pros, though still considerably slower then the very top end Macs. Apple didn't really sell a comparable piece of hardware, but after doing all the math I reckoned if they did it would have been about 1.5-2x the price. Actually if Apple made a machine in that range, that didn't have a monitor built into it, I would happily buy it, even if its 1.5x the price. Unfortunately, the consumer stuff is too low endy for what we do, and from there you have to jump all the way up into a Mac Pro that is 2-3x or even more in price, which frankly I don't need. I guess a similar PC could be built for roughly half the price.

My Macbook Pro is serving me just fine for now and its hard to imagine going back to non-Apple hardware and especially to windows. On the other hand, I don't like the direction Lion and ML have gone, and all the points about iphones, ipads, IOS, etc...they are valid. Windows may turn into a much preferable solution for audio down the road, but I don't know if we're there yet. It will be interesting to see what happens in the DP world with both platforms available now and an entirely new dynamic will result on this forum in the next few years.

[toodamnhip]

Windows 7 is pretty rock solid- I've got VE Pro 5 installed and Sibelius and Finale and it's really fast; the libraries I have on my Mac load up in VEP5 in a fraction of the time on the PC.

I wonder why libraries load so much faster on your pc?
Also, I wonder if insiders like MOTU know something we don;t know about the future of macs?
I don’t tend to believe that apple wants to lose the prestige of having a great, top line computer. But if I were a software manufacturing co. and thought the main vehicle for my product might stop making machines to run it, I too would make a windows version. Hmmm
Rumor has it next yr will come a smoking mac pro, thunder bolt, etc, (hopefully they’ll up the hardrive bus to 6.0 too).
That will tell a lot, next yr.

[HCMarkus]

Wondering if Frank has those libraries on an SSD... now THAT would make a difference!

[labman]

yes, if you put them on SSD and kick the preload buffer sizes down it is amazing.

[Killahurts]

Can anyone who has DP8 already and VE Pro tell me if the bug has been fixed, whereby turning on the VE Pro server and then booting DP (the order you're supposed to do it) on the same machine would crash DP and cause it not to boot?

The workaround was to boot DP first and then the VEP server, and then manually connect all your VEP instances. I thought that sucked and so I just stopped using VEP on the main computer. Now that I have learned that my UAD Plugs are not 64 bit ready, I have a renewed interest in seeing if I can consolidate some of my templates onto one computer, but I will have to use VE Pro to make that happen.. for now.

[frankymax]

Wondering if Frank has those libraries on an SSD... now THAT would make a difference!

Yes, yes yes- I forgot to mention that we had 5- internal 120 gig SSD drives installed- one for string libraries, one for brass & woodwinds, one for perc, one for misc, one for system and also two SATA 2 terrabyte drives for projects, movies etc. I have 32 gigs of RAM on there too, plus a blu-ray drive, and a high end graphics card and all for $2.4k! It's got USB 3 but no thunderbolt at this point. Those SSD are really fast! It'll be interesting to see how this all goes with DP8, I could be back on a Mac if things get weird, but it's kind of a perverse experiment for me!

[cowtothesky]

Can anyone who has DP8 already and VE Pro tell me if the bug has been fixed, whereby turning on the VE Pro server and then booting DP (the order you're supposed to do it) on the same machine would crash DP and cause it not to boot?

The workaround was to boot DP first and then the VEP server, and then manually connect all your VEP instances. I thought that sucked and so I just stopped using VEP on the main computer. Now that I have learned that my UAD Plugs are not 64 bit ready, I have a renewed interest in seeing if I can consolidate some of my templates onto one computer, but I will have to use VE Pro to make that happen.. for now.

You don't have to manually connect all the VEP instances. What I do is close out VEP, open DP, then while DP is loading plugins, open VEP. DP then automatically connects all of the VEP instances. A minor nuisance.

[bayswater]

I am hoping this is unnecessary as I think that if I boot in 64, 95% of my programs will disappear, word processor programs, browsers, etc.

Go to About This Mac, More Info, Software, Applications. There is a column over to the right that tells you whether each of your apps is 32 or 64 bit. You'll probably find that most of the newer stuff is 64 bit.

Not that it actually matters. My laptop always boots in 64 bit mode, and it runs 32 bit apps like DP, Pages, DSP Q, Skype, etc. fine. You can go to Terminal, and enter "uname -a" and it will tell you if you are running the 32 or 64 bit kernel.