MOTUnation.com

Prime Mover wrote:Problem is, Light Editions are real investments that require constant updates along with the main line. Where-as, demos are mostly just the innitial investment of developing the usage scheme (save disabling, time limit, etc), once you have that framework complete, it's fairly simple to just tack it on to any version of the mother program as it gets updated. Demos require comparatively little effort to produce. But throw a light edition in the mix, and you can expect longer development times for DP, I don't think we want that.

Totally agree. AudioDesk was sort of a lite-version of DP, often included for free in the hardware interface boxes. It was a pain in the neck. It didn't have all the features of DP, plus it always had problems of its own, bugs of its own, and never seemed to be updated as much as DP. As an ambassador for DP, it really drove people away. I was glad when they dropped that.

Prime Mover wrote:The one thing that could work is a trail version that comes loaded with tutorial process bubbles. Things like step by step walkthroughs of various windows and features, and differences from traditional DAWs.

But yeah, I'm totally in agreement, video walkthrough tutorials would be a GREAT first step.

I've been wanting to create some videos along those lines, and post them here. Two things prevent me: one, it takes a lot of time to make a really 1st-rate video. And two, if any of those things gets popular, that's MY bandwidth that it's eating up. They cut you off after a point, and then how am I going to download a movie (the Hollywood kind) to watch after a long day of working? I guess I could upload them to YouTube. I just haven't wanted to have a YouTube presence. Guess this is the time to think about that. Then there's still the issue of the time it takes to make a video. I've got a life, too, you know?

But I think we could make better videos than MOTU could. Why? Because we USE it in the way that end users do, and we know what stumps people. Just go right to the point. MOTU would feel like they had to be all-inclusive and cover everything no matter how mundane. We can zero in on little things. If we have a good indexing system, we could make a great set of tutorials.

But… it takes time. I've only made a few, and they were not good quality. I need to get so familiar with the video tools I've got that it does not intimidate me to pull them out. 90% of my time is spent trying to make sure I've done it the best way. If I could just see a potential teaching point, boot the screenshot software, and make the video, I'd get a lot more done if I knew it wasn't going to take me more than, say, 15 minutes.

Maybe if someone made us a tutorial on the BEST, FASTEST way to make a high quality video. I can tell you the first step: download ScreenFlow. Then you need the ability to hear what's happening in DP in full fidelity plus hear your voice through a microphone. I have a hard time getting both of these sources to record directly into a video app. My workaround is to put the microphone in DP, and have it monitor only DP. Then I've got to change my file, add the mic track, reconfigure the input/output hardware drivers, record the video, then go back and RE-reconfigure things back to the way they were in order to continue working. I don't know, but when I've got a fleet of VI's that take minutes to boot after a driver change, that's just not conducive to interrupting what I'm doing to make a video. If anyone has a better way, please… do tell.

Shooshie

Not to mention you'll just be feeding the pirates and trolls.

mikehalloran wrote: Now that I agree with. Show how it works. Gets people interested and cuts down on tech support. Migawd, a quick video on setting up CoreAudio, inputs and outputs in DP would save everyone a lot of time.

+1 and a lot of videos so people can think "It is not that complex". The manual is well written, but sometimes unpleasant for a day-to-day use, lacking of tips and tricks. How to route multiple aux, BFD,EzDrummer etc.

Shooshie wrote:AudioDesk was sort of a lite-version of DP, often included for free in the hardware interface boxes. It was a pain in the neck. It didn't have all the features of DP, plus it always had problems of its own, bugs of its own, and never seemed to be updated as much as DP. As an ambassador for DP, it really drove people away. I was glad when they dropped that.

They've dropped it? I didn't know. Then they should really bundle something with their Audio Interfaces. Or at least advertise DP more in the hardware boxes.

AudioDesk was actually what got me into DP. I had a, erm... "borrowed" copy of Cubase but when I bought my 2408 I tried AdioDesk and it sounded so much better. But I thought DP was so damn ugly (this was pre v3) but after an insuring mail from MOTU that they would address that for v3 I upgraded from AD to DP 2.72.

Well, I THINK they did drop it. I'm not 100% sure of that. Didn't they drop it with DP6.0?

[edit] I stand corrected. The most recent update to AudioDesk was on the 14th of this month, June 14, 2011. That comes after 2 years and 2 months of no upgrades. Well, well, well. It's Baaack.

Shooshie wrote:Maybe if someone made us a tutorial on the BEST, FASTEST way to make a high quality video. I can tell you the first step: download ScreenFlow. Then you need the ability to hear what's happening in DP in full fidelity plus hear your voice through a microphone. I have a hard time getting both of these sources to record directly into a video app.Shooshie

ScreenFlow? Never heard of it. All the Mac guys over at CreativeCow.net (best production tutorials I've ever seen) use SnapzPro, which I think is $50. I'm sure ScreenFlow can do the same things, but that's a lot more expensive.

Secondly, why not just send everything from DP and CueMix to Soundflower, then set ScreenFlow/SnapzPro to input from Soundflower, and you're good to go.

But doing a tutorial is no joke. I've done ONE on Adobe AfterEffects, which is a lot more streamlined a program than DP7. I was doing a process that I've done over and over again, a process that normally takes me 3 minutes, plus rendering (which I sped-up), and the full tutorial was 20 minutes long, after 3 takes! Crazy! I'm not bad at teaching and speaking in front of people, but when you're faced with operating an interface, trying to be concise and smooth, it's HARD!

Then again, there are some amaizing tutorial presenters out there who overcome all of my problems, and create incredibly smooth, articulate, and often entertaining tutorials.

I have always used Snapz Pro and its predecessors, as far back as it went. But it's not the easiest, most intuitive interface, and it can be difficult figuring out the best formats to use. Screenflow offers some unique features. It captures the events on your screen, which enables you to change them somewhat later on. You'd have to see it to know what I mean, but I found it to be a significant advantage. It also has an iMovie-type editing interface in which you can do a lot more than just present a screen-capture. Further, it will upload directly to YouTube. I haven't done so, but I assume it also does so in the most appropriate format and resolution for that. This is a huge timesaver for me. (and helps take out some of the intimidation)

I have bought at least 4 or 5 video apps for this purpose. The fact that I still tried ScreenFlow and immediately bought it should tell you something about its quality.

As for soundflower, I'm going to have to relearn that. I used it back in the OS9 days, or maybe it was early OSX, but somewhere along the line it started causing a lot of trouble. I purged it from my system. When I reinstalled it for the purpose of making videos, I was unable to get it to work. Obviously, I didn't download everything I needed. Just haven't wanted to fool with it. Will try again someday. Know of a tutorial?

Shoosh

Does Soundflower really need a tutorial? Come on, it's a driver. All it is is an internal audio bus (think IAC MIDI, but for audio). There's a 2channel and 16channel version, but I've never used the 16channel. I'm not sure how ScreenFlow works, or whether it supports more than two channels of audio, but maybe you could route DP and the mic separately if you use SoundFlower 16chan (the two versions come together and install together). Otherwise, if you're not concerned about getting stereo audio from DP (which you might not be some of the time), you could always just pan DP left and mic right, and balance them later. Then again, I don't think it's too much to ask to set your levels beforehand and just go stereo. What would be really nice is just make an extra mic channel in your DP project, and then you can setup any EQ and compression to get a smooth level. Ouput everything to soundflower and you're good to go.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Not to mention you'll just be feeding the pirates and trolls.

How so? What would a demo give them they don't have now?

Was talking about the tutorials. Frankly, there is so much info on this site now who needs the manual anyway? LOL!

Good grief, MLC, that's going a bit overboard, don't you think? Not making tutorials because of possible pirate feeding would also (and mostly) penelize paying users. I'm all for anti-piracy, but when it starts to intrude on paying users, I draw the line. And tutorials would be great for everybody.

I know there is no official relationship between MOTU and this site, but I wonder if they would be willing to work with James on establishing a tutorial archive if the idea was broached. Though, none of us can speak for James either, it would probably be a big hastle on his end.

Having been the plaintiff in numerous infringement suits, I give no quarter when it comes to theft of intellectual property. NONE! Overboard? That's what I would do to pirates. Brutal? Surely! (Not that I mind collecting infringement fees... ).

Personally making decisions on what you do to entice new paying customers, or to help paying customers make the choice to use DP based on pirates IMO is a lose lose scenario.

They --> aren't going away, but paying customers will if all they get online is forum posts about how awkward DP is on places like Gearslutz or KVR and the pretty much awful tutorials on youtube right now. IMO the inability to learn the basic features of a program pre purchase is not a great pirate deterrent but a great paying customer deterrent.

MIDI, what you do to Pirates is your own prerogative. It's what you do to the rest of us along the way that concerns me.

... and apparently MOTU agrees with me. No demo. No tutorials. No PDF manual.