Can't get piano VI's to sound good

[JMVideo]

Tobor... thanks for sharing your test results. I just did the same test with my CP300 and got the same results! I couldn't get it to 127 no matter how hard I played the keys on the soft setting. So I think this explains a lot.

It's odd because the internal piano patches played through the CP300's speakers sound great and aren't lacking velocity at all. So the culprit definitely must be how the Yamaha boards are configured for MIDI.

I would definitely recommend the PSP pianoverb plugin as well. It's really subtle, but seems to add that extra little does of realism that piano VIs need.

This was a great discussion!

[Tobor]

Tobor... thanks for sharing your test results. I just did the same test with my CP300 and got the same results! I couldn't get it to 127 no matter how hard I played the keys on the soft setting. So I think this explains a lot.

It's odd because the internal piano patches played through the CP300's speakers sound great and aren't lacking velocity at all. So the culprit definitely must be how the Yamaha boards are configured for MIDI.

I would definitely recommend the PSP pianoverb plugin as well. It's really subtle, but seems to add that extra little does of realism that piano VIs need.

This was a great discussion!

And thanks to you for bringing up the topic, and to Mark for the Yamaha info- it might be well known but it was new to me!

I'm getting much better results and sound now from many VIs- BFD2, for example- with the extra 'oomph'.

You learn something every day on this forum.

Tobor

[David Polich]

Just a side note - on a real piano, no human being can play a velocity
at 127. It isn't possible. The hardest a human being can play is about
105. Most people play in the 45-80 range.

A Yamaha Disklavier can play back velocities of up to 127, but at
velocities above 105 the sound is just way too chaotic. The piano
actually sounds distorted at those velocity levels.

Virtual (sampled or modeled) pianos are all different, and everyone
responds to them differently. You'll find people who love or hate
every single virtual piano available. And how the controller interacts with
the responding virtual instrument is a big factor. Even with a
self-contained digital piano like a Yamaha CP5, the keyboard and the
sound-producing sections are still two separate components.

Personally I use Pianoteq, which I can customize completely to my liking
because I do sound design and programming for a living. I have Ivory and
The Grand 3, along with the Native Instruments pianos, but I don't use
any of those. Yet I'm sure there are many people who would disagree with
me.

[mhschmieder]

Also, be aware that some VI's adhere to the "old standard" of a percentile based grading system for things such as note velocity. This dates back to the Yamaha DX7, if not other early MIDI synths as well.

So, always check the manual to even see if velocities above 100 do anything, but Dave is also right that there are human physical limitations in reaching velocities above 105.

[Tobor]

Thanks David and mh for more food for thought. It is true that most VIs are probably scaled differently and each probably has a 'sweet spot' that feels most realistic in a given range.

Armed with this knowledge I've been having fun playing Ivory II and other VIs while adjusting my S80's velocity curve from 'norm' to 'soft' and/or inserting a MIDI velocity scale plug-in in DP, as well as the internal curve in Ivory II.

I also went back and tested my Pianoteq demo for bit. I like certain things about it (and the vibes and EPs are interesting, too), but there's just something about the upper middle octaves I don't find satisfying when playing solo. If you haven't yet upgraded your Ivory to version II, you really should give it a try.

Tobor

[monkey man]

Ha! Sounds like you need Dave to programme some killer presets for you, Tobor. Aren't there heaps available after-market which for obvious reasons don't feature in the demo?

FWIW, I've not bought a single VI yet, but I've followed PT's progress in the eyes of mhschmieder and Dave Polich here on the board, and this plug seems like a no-brainer to me. Being locked into a single tone and perhaps variations thereof doesn't appeal to me given that PT allows you to tailor said characteristic and many others to taste/requirements. Then there's the minisule app size. Tough to beat that, methinks.

Of course, if you simply must have a genuine German antique or something, you can wear the inconveniences, but AFAICT, with PT you'd at least be able to get close anyway.

Out of my depth here. Just being nosy in trying to be helpful.

[mikehalloran]

Sometimes I have to use what is lying about the house - when I am not using it as a banjo stand, that is...