Can DP 7 receive MIDI output from a Instrument plug-in?

[Kubi]

Word.

The biggest reasons for MIDI out from an AU would be drum sequencers, arpeggiators, and unique step sequencers. Not to mention an AU's internal grooves etc.

Couple examples:

Reaktor- there are some really unique step sequencers in Reaktor, maybe you want to have another soft synth follow the sequence, or to have the other AU be the only sound etc.

Geist (Guru before) is a great drum machine AU, really nicely laid out exclusively for electronic drums, it's pretty cool to be able to send out the Kick/snare or whatever MIDI hit from Geist to control one of the many drum synthesizers in another track, etc. etc. This way all your percussion sequences stay inside Geist.

It would of course also open up the playing field for third party MIDI plug ins, arps etc.

For some reason it's not being implemented in AU even by Apple with Logic apparently, but it's a great feature of VSTs and it really should be.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

What am I missing? Why can't you just duplicate the track and send the data to the desired location - internal or external?

[Gravity Jim]

Or create a Device Group, and send the MIDI performance to two or more synths at once?

Or set it up in Multi-record, and record the performance to several tracks at once? (That may be the same thing MLC was saying.)

It just seems there are more direct and low-latency ways to get the same MIDI performance to several places at once than emulating the analog solution and using a virtual MIDI Thru port.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Baby birds eat by having their mothers throw up in their mouths. Maybe passing data from a VI has the same effect?

[cuttime]

I've had pretty good luck running VSTs in a standalone mode with this, however, I've never been able to get it to publish MIDI outs on an interapplication basis. Perhaps someone could figure this one out.

[cuttime]

The biggest reasons for MIDI out from an AU would be drum sequencers, arpeggiators, and unique step sequencers. Not to mention an AU's internal grooves etc.

Now, this is what I don't understand. I can get AU plugs to publish MIDI from within DP. I do this all the time with Kirnu and Hypercyclic. As long as Multi Record is on I can get MIDI from DP output to DP input via interapplication MIDI.

[adriano]

What am I missing? Why can't you just duplicate the track and send the data to the desired location - internal or external?

I thought about duplicating or multi-recording and it's a no go.
Let me try to explain:

In RealGuitar, if I'm holding a chord, lets say a "CMaj", to strum it, I'd have to use the strum keys C5 and D5. Now, if I were to copy those notes to a MIDI track assigned to an external MIDI device, you would think that it would play correctly but, it doesn't. What it plays is C5 and D5.
See, these notes are mapped for RealGuitar only. In the VST version, if you turn the MIDI Out function ON, it will output the actual strumming notes and not the keys mapped for strumming.

I hope I was clear,
Adriano

[adriano]

The biggest reasons for MIDI out from an AU would be drum sequencers, arpeggiators, and unique step sequencers. Not to mention an AU's internal grooves etc.

Now, this is what I don't understand. I can get AU plugs to publish MIDI from within DP. I do this all the time with Kirnu and Hypercyclic. As long as Multi Record is on I can get MIDI from DP output to DP input via interapplication MIDI.

I too have tried that and the MIDI output sometime, it's all over the place. I guess it depends on how demanding the plug in is.

I tried to use Zen (AU), here is the link: http://www.bigtickaudio.com/zen/about-zen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
from the dev:
Load Zen (AU) in DP then, load RG (VST) into Zen AU.
Zen sits between your host and RealGuitar, and transparently passes everything from one to the other. So if RealGuitar outputs MIDI out, Zen will pass it through.

Zen AU passes the plugin test in DP but, when I create an instrument track for Zen, I get a blank screen. The dev was just notified and he is working on a fix.

Adriano

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I see. NOW what you're asking makes sense and it is clear why you have a problem.

The strumming is not a function of MIDI but a script (or sample trigger) in the VI and is probably proprietary to that VI. It would be like a Wavestation being asked to use a wave sequence to trigger MIDI data at the same rate it triggers samples.

This is not a problem with the DAW (AFAIK) and I would guess that the VI is not generating MIDI data. But nevertheless, some VIs do (apparently) generate MIDI data and if you really must have that, then perhaps Plogue Bidule would solve the problem?

http://plogue.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... out#p31028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't rely on "automation" as you are describing. I'll avoid the philosophical rationale for this as it would certainly get a few knickers in a knot but, in general, my feeling is that any music worth hearing is worth performing. Taking the long way home can be a very rewarding and satisfying experience...

[FMiguelez]

Hi FM,

I'll do my best to be as clear as possible.

RealGuitar for example from Musiclab, the VST plugin version has MIDI out capabilities. What this does is making it General MIDI compliant. Here is a link, if interested in some reading: http://www.MIDI.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trying to strum a guitar on keys for a standard MIDI file, is not an easy task, but, RealGuitar implemented "MIDI Out" feature about a year ago and it works very nice.

Hello, Adriano.

I will read your link shortly, because this is really new to me... I'm still not sure I understand the need to do that, but I haven't read your link yet

Also, MLC just made a good point up there...

[Gravity Jim]

I get it now.

As MLC points out, MIDI out won't work, because you'll just get the two notes you're playing on your keyboard. You want the MIDI data being generated by the VI to get passed on. Well, that's above my pay grade.

[adriano]

I see. NOW what you're asking makes sense and it is clear why you have a problem.

The strumming is not a function of MIDI but a script (or sample trigger) in the VI and is probably proprietary to that VI. It would be like a Wavestation being asked to use a wave sequence to trigger MIDI data at the same rate it triggers samples.

This is not a problem with the DAW (AFAIK) and I would guess that the VI is not generating MIDI data. But nevertheless, some VIs do (apparently) generate MIDI data and if you really must have that, then perhaps Plogue Bidule would solve the problem?

http://plogue.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... out#p31028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read the link you posted and that might be the answer. I sent an email to the dev.

I don't rely on "automation" as you are describing. I'll avoid the philosophical rationale for this as it would certainly get a few knickers in a knot

I'm openminded and no offense would be taken. This is a discussion and I might learn something or, maybe learn nothing from your point of view. I do appreciate all inputs and honesty. Now, shoot!

Adriano

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'm openminded and no offense would be taken. This is a discussion and I might learn something or, maybe learn nothing from your point of view. I do appreciate all inputs and honesty. Now, shoot!

Adriano

OK, the blunt version...

I totally get the automation stuff and have used it a lot in the past. Arpeggiators, wave sequences, loops (heaven forbid!) but as I continue to grown as a musician and composer, I find myself far less dependent on these "tools." They are great for certain genres of music, but in general and for my purposes, they are a lazy person's shortcut and more often a substitute for lack of performing skills or worse, lack of original ideas!

Believe it or not, I am very fond of humans, in general, and in particular fond of humans who combine eye-hand coordination with intellect and thoughtfulness - especially to create meaningful experiences for themselves and others, whether that be in art or education

What the shortcuts lack are a human touch. Again, I totally get that we can't all have a real guitar to strum, or a real violin to bow. I am also guilty of using VIs... ☺ but duplicating the strumming of that VI can be viewed by jaded old guys (like me) as a cop out.

ALL THAT SAID - I am also a fan of experimenting and experimental music and clearly there is a place for that and the kinds of procedures and routing you are looking for and I do think you should have access to that if that is the way you want to roll (or rock).

Plogue Bidule is a phenomenal tool for such activities (experimenting, that is). I hope that works out for you. In general, I basically use it to host my VIs since I had a lowly G5 that could not handle that much. Now I use it to host MachFive in 64 bit mode since DP is not yet up to speed in that area either.

OK, I'm done.

Oh yeah, BTW --->KEEP OFF MY LAWN! LOL!

[adriano]

MLC, thank you for your views.
I totally see your point and I totally agree.
My issue is that I am not a guitar player and for some of my needs, implementing guitar strum parts in an SMF, can be very frustrating. It can be done but, it can take days to get it to sound right.

You need to cut the grass on that lawn if you want me off of it

Thanks again,
Adriano

[bayswater]

They are great for certain genres of music, but in general and for my purposes, they are a lazy person's shortcut and more often a substitute for lack of performing skills or worse, lack of original ideas!

Agreed. When I hear an automated VI guitar, it never sounds like a guitar to me. So I have to think that piano players and drummers etc. hear the same when they hear sampled pianos and drums. Maybe with a lot of work and practise, you can get VIs to sound real with controllers, but the time is probably better spent learning how to play the real thing, or arranging to work with someone who already can. In any case, it's always a real compromise using VIs.