String runs using samples question (and more...)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

ah James... you mean 'lost his virginity while listening to Tchaikovsky'... right?

Thanks everyone for the tips -

Don't you mean... oh never mind, I'm in enough trouble as it is.

[Frodo]

And Harry Potter's voice never put a woman in the mood... ....

I'd might grant you that--- but have you talked to women who are still in their teens? That would mean they are not yet women, so your point stands!!

That aside-- don't misunderestimate [sic] the power of Hogwarts!!

Funny thing, in this forum full of composers I'm the only guy that lost his virginity to Tchaikovsky. No lie. Oh the irony.

All contextual humor has been duly noted!!

While my "day of reckoning" include some Earth, Wind, & Fire, Doobie Brothers, Hall and Oats, Beatles, and a few others, I confess that Tchaikowsky's Romeo and Juliet was part of it-- as well as the last movement from his 6th Symphony, which remains one of THE most devastatingly romantic pieces of music ever written in the history of music. I'll leave the rest to anyone's imagination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGIL_yyT3wI

[Frodo]

Help: Frodo - When is it good to cheat in life again???

You tawkina me? You tawkina me?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Help: Frodo - When is it good to cheat in life again???

You tawkina me? You tawkina me?

'Cause I'm da only one heeere.

Nice accent, Mr. F. I'm impressed.

[Frodo]

In "my day" we'd use Magic Carpet Ride to score...

Magic Carpet Ride.

Why not?

[James Steele]

"Day of Reckoning..."

Frodo-- I searched my thoughts for a suitable euphemism before posting and could think of none. Then you nailed it. I'm impressed. Damn... I just said "nailed it." Michael's not going to let that go by... ugh...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

"Day of Reckoning..."

Frodo-- I searched my thoughts for a suitable euphemism before posting and could think of none. Then you nailed it. I'm impressed. Damn... I just said "nailed it." Michael's not going to let that go by... ugh...

Au contraire! All I'll say is tonight was a night to be a musician type... now back to business... See ya in the morning.

[Frodo]

"Day of Reckoning..."

Frodo-- I searched my thoughts for a suitable euphemism before posting and could think of none. Then you nailed it. I'm impressed. Damn... I just said "nailed it." Michael's not going to let that go by... ugh...

Dies Irae, for you Latin speaking 'Cornies.

Yep. That day-- it was the end of the world as we knew it back then. It was the day EVERYTHING changed forever.

One thing which had to be reckoned was what to do when the object of your affection had no interest in recapturing that moment.

It's the SECOND time that is always more revealing than the first time.

See ya in the morning.

Now, waydaminnit...

Don't tell me that you're going to bed at 9 a-clock?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Now, waydaminnit...

Don't tell me that you're going to bed at 9 a-clock?

[Frodo]

Now, waydaminnit...

Don't tell me that you're going to bed at 9 a-clock?

Apparently not.

Pancakes, anyone?

[FMiguelez]

.

Some libraries, like VSL, provide very nice legato samples. Some have portamento. These, when used for fast scales, provide you with a very nice "blur" that closely matches what a real section would do. Depending on the speed, they can almost sound like glissando.
Combining that patch with others, as Frodo mentioned, will give you maximum flexibility. A little tedious to program, but the results will most likely be worth it.

Another thing you could do, is to double the runs with other instruments, such as wood winds. This will give you a thicker sound. It will change the timbre of the compound resulting sound, but that may be just the ticket.
Depending on your orchestration, this would also help runs sound more "distinguished" in terms of volume and density, if that's your intended goal.

If you can, I really recommend playing all these doubled scales in real time (not just copying/pasting). Even if you need to temporarily lower the speed (so you can play them), this will give you maximum realism, since no note will sound at the exact same place... just like a real orchestra. Even if a few parts of the run are as much as 1/16 note ahead or behind. As long as you start and end them SORT OF together, what happens in the middle will sound very nice. Just experiment and let the sound guide you.

[bongo_x]

...While the overlap rule is true for an individual instrument, the idea of overlapping is typical when 16 violinists play together-- or should I say *not* together. It's the slight "smearing" effect from one player to the next that adds an element of realism if handled carefully...

Wow, I was just thinking about this very thing yesterday. That's only weird because I haven't until this point used any string sample libraries, and am mostly too musically ignorant to do so. I have been thinking about it though (for those times when I'd like to hear some strings but don't want to rob a bank to make it happen) and wondered if it wouldn't sound more realistic to have individual players be early and late.

I don't work in anything related to the classical music field, but I have worked with live string players on rock records many times, and the tuning and timings imperfections are definitely part of the "live" sound. I would say that "timing" (and tuning for that matter) to a string player is not the same as it is in rock or electronic productions. Let's just say it's more fluid. It would seem to me that playing samples of a section hitting notes at the same time and playing them as a run would not result in anything like what a real bunch of string players would do.

That's what I like about this forum, I was just wondering about this yesterday, and today I have an answer.


bb

[Elektroakoustika]

Frodo, you inspired me.

Hearing your demo with Hedwig's Theme made me wonder what I could do with it just by using LA Scoring Strings. So I spend about an hour or so tweaking it and I think I got a pretty good result. LASS has a great Legato script where I can change the way the note's attacks and releases (within the legato!). So I messed around with it for awhile until I found something I liked. Also rode the mod wheel to add more expression to the phrase.

So here's a rough mix of what I came up with on Hedwig's Theme from Harry Potter. All strings are LASS.

http://www.box.net/shared/4ly2zr62jh

-ea

[Frodo]

Hey EA:

Looks like the inspiration is mutual. Great job with that-- LASS sounds pretty darn good, me-thinks. I can tell you that once you put in the other strings, it's only going to get better. I wouldn't think you'd want much more "smear" than that for the violin 1, but just adding the violin 2 part will add even more glue and gloss to that passage.

I was impressed that you got those trills in there as well! Great work. I wish I had more time. I'd love to mock up that entire cue-- but somewhere I know I added the rest of the strings--- must go in search of that project folder. Hmm.

What did you use for the French horn?

...While the overlap rule is true for an individual instrument, the idea of overlapping is typical when 16 violinists play together-- or should I say *not* together. It's the slight "smearing" effect from one player to the next that adds an element of realism if handled carefully...

Wow, I was just thinking about this very thing yesterday. That's only weird because I haven't until this point used any string sample libraries, and am mostly too musically ignorant to do so. I have been thinking about it though (for those times when I'd like to hear some strings but don't want to rob a bank to make it happen) and wondered if it wouldn't sound more realistic to have individual players be early and late.

I don't work in anything related to the classical music field, but I have worked with live string players on rock records many times, and the tuning and timings imperfections are definitely part of the "live" sound. I would say that "timing" (and tuning for that matter) to a string player is not the same as it is in rock or electronic productions. Let's just say it's more fluid. It would seem to me that playing samples of a section hitting notes at the same time and playing them as a run would not result in anything like what a real bunch of string players would do.

That's what I like about this forum, I was just wondering about this yesterday, and today I have an answer.


bb

Hey B:

No, it's not necessary to do anything "classical" per se to get the most out of a decent string library. The same principals can be applied almost universally with variations to suit whatever style of music you work on.

Samples are never quite like the real thing, no matter how good they are. Some libraries get closer than others, though.

I'll say this-- once we get down to having the capability of implementing these kinds of details into our tracks, then we must be in a pretty good place. If you can get "close enough" with LASS scripts or VSL samples, then the next step is--what-- a REAL orchestra! YAY!!

To me, that's very good news.

[Elektroakoustika]

The horn is actually the 4 horns ensemble from VSL. I really liked the depth of sound it had and thought it matched the original the best out of all my horns.

VSL? Now, I have most of their stuff and didn't "recognize" it as VSL. I just enjoyed the sound a lot. Makes me feel good!

If only I had oodles of time to finish the whole thing. Programming tunes like this is too much fun.

-ea

Or-- "How I *wanted* to spend my summer vacation...!"

Yeah, it is a lot of fun hearing these things come to life. I take it you have the score? Otherwise, I'd be remiss if I didn't commend you on having such amazing ears!