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MIDI Life Crisis wrote:So basically, in terms of MOTU delivering in some "normal" timeframe is not the issue. The issue is that for the most part (as far as I can tell) people haven't abandoned a version the way they seem to have abandoned DP 6 (again, if I am reading the forum even close to reality)

I have three thoughts about this:

1. Didn't we go through a similar thing with DP4?

2. Anecdotal data can be dangerous to assess

3. Your chart shows that release times are not out of line with historical trends, so that part is actually a relief to see. Thanks for doing that.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

Frodo wrote: If I expect nothing, then everything else will be a pleasant surprise.... as long as I don't expect it to be... (?)

Have you read Lao Tzu? You seem to have adopted his philosophy...

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... o_tzu.html

See what hobbits have been driven to?


This somehow hits closer to home---

Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt.

billf wrote: 3. Your chart shows that release times are not out of line with historical trends, so that part is actually a relief to see. Thanks for doing that.

That is kind of the main point as some were commenting about the delay in getting an update. Again, it's the functionality of the updates that concerns me.

Your welcome.

Just to toss in a data point - I'm using DP6.02 and I'm fine with it. I've done a couple 40+ track projects and it didn't die. Admittedly I don't make my living with it and I don't use it daily (more like a few hours a week).

I expect MOTU is holding off on a release until post-snow leopard in september.

Also, FWIW, the Apple discussion area is howling with L9 upgraders screaming about stability issues. So its not like the grass is greener anywhere else.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

billf wrote: 3. Your chart shows that release times are not out of line with historical trends, so that part is actually a relief to see. Thanks for doing that.

That is kind of the main point as some were commenting about the delay in getting an update. Again, it's the functionality of the updates that concerns me.

Your welcome.

Previously, when there was a long delay it was because the current version was stable and widely accepted, even if maybe a few features were broken. The next upgrade would fix most of those features, and the cycle would start over. This time, the current version is unusually loathed or just not respected. While I don't hate this version, I'm very disappointed that some things are broken that really shouldn't be. Some aspects of the CC edit tools aren't working correctly, and Tap Tempo doesn't work at all for me. I've used Tap Tempo thousands of times in the distant past, but it has not worked properly since version 4.0, and it seems more broken in this version than ever before.

And that's just a few things. There are others, but they don't affect me as much as the ones I just named.

Anyway, the point being that this version is troubling, and to go so long without fixing it leaves me with doubts. Of course, you can also look at it with hope, as in, "they've been working a whole year to get this right." But seeing as how they've not been listening to my reports about CC edit tools and Tap Tempo, I have little hope that it will actually get fixed. I sure hope that there are beta testers in this forum, and if so, that they check out those things and report them if they aren't right. (For that matter, I hope it's in beta. If they are going to attempt a September release (with Snow Leopard), it probably would have been in beta weeks ago.

Shooshie

Shooshie wrote:I'll probably buy it if they charge for it, but only because I really want them to fix it...

Shooshie

I hope you know that I respect you and your thoughts generally, Shooshie, but this attitude brings to mind, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I think it would be unconscionable of MOTU to bring out a V7 when they don't have a solid version of V6, especially if the scuttlebutt about the next rev being Intel only has legs. This attitude en masse would only encourage irresponsible behavior, and a super-angry Mikey.

Jim, that was sort of the way I felt when even writing that last post. Sort of like a glutton for punishment. But the reality is less masochistic than it may look. It's just that I've seen MOTU get it all together before after a period of things not quite working. Since I'm not a beta-tester and since they have not listened to my reports on broken features, the only time they might listen to me is right after a big upgrade release. Quite honestly I started feeling a little foolish about all this when version 6 came out, and by 6.02 that feeling had not completely gone away. Nonetheless, if there is a charge for the update, I'll still pay for it this time. Even a fool has to have his hope!


Shooshie

There were some system-specific things I worried about which I'm not sure are going to be a problem-- such as the next version of DP being for Intel only. The reason why I say this is that there are a few bits of software from different developers which are stating, for example, that 10.5.7 is required, but not Intel (even if recommended). The understanding of what Universal Binary really is appears to be making a slight adjustment in public consciousness. We've sort of known this to be PPC + Intel compatible-- when what it really means is 32-bit + 64-bit OS compatible, ergo usable on 10.5.7 and 'later'. If 10.5.7 works on your PPC, then the software will follow. 10.6 is another story, though.

Duende did this as well as Logic 9, although there is some gee-gawing going on with Logic 9 which I've not fully understood. In any case, I don't think that the Intel-only issue is going to fall so soon for all developers. I would be surprised if DP went Intel-only in its next incarnation, to be honest. Those who bought G5s 5 years ago are only now seeing their Apple Care expire. That doesn't mean that their PPCs are expiring, though.

With that said, there remain a combination of things which have me a little concerned still. Not all of MOTU's own VIs have been updated to be compatible with pre-rendering. I find this very strange-- especially with the amount of time it took for MachFive2 to arrive-- some 2.5 years. It hasn't been updated since October, 2007, so we're pushing 5 years on this one. It's been almost 3 years since Ethno was updated. Granted, other MOTU VIs *have* been updated-- even new ones have been released since DP6 appeared. But it's one of those things that makes you go, "hmm".

So, this raises some question as to how third-party VIs do (for some) and do not (for others) work with DP6. It's still quite a conundrum to hear that DP6 is working well for some and not for others.... thing is, there are some heavy hitters around here scratching their heads.

Big Daddy (a favored emeritus Motunation member) always said "no whining", so in his honor I'll hold to that.

However, I noticed some "giggling" going on in another thread about some Logic 9 mishaps posted on youtube. The giggling is probably deserved, well enough-- but I would dread seeing such demonstrations posted about DP. What I dread the most is that I've seen some *private* vid captures of DP6 not having a good day-- all too easily made-- and quite frankly, it's a little unnerving to watch."If you live in a glass house..."

Let's see what the next version of DP does. If it's a hit, then great. If it's not, then just prepare yourselves for the inevitable DP8-9-10-11-12-13-14 wishlist threads.

The truth is, there is little else within out power to do, is there? We can stick with or go back to DP 4 or 5, we could find a new DAW, we can keep using DP6.x if it's working fine, or continue to share our hopes and dreams for the future.

There was once a time when a lot of the discussions were about getting a more powerful computer. LOL-- that was back in the day when people were moving out of Performas into G3's. Here we are in G5/Intel land-- lots of RAM and CPUs holding steady between 2-3Ghz, and now the chat is back to "getting a better version of DP".

I'm not sure what all of this means, but it feels different somehow this time around-- not quite as shiny and wrinkle-free. It feels more cautious. Hoping and believing that the next version of DP will be better doesn't make it better.

What does make DP better? I honestly don't know when I take hope out of the equation. We'll just have to wait and see.

I imagine motu could be feeling they can't get a break with each update of DP. I know how much effort it takes
to remain competitive and prosper in the field of songwriting and production. Keeping up with the advances
of Logic and PT, without the same resources must be daunting. So yes, it's difficult to say what the next best
move for DP is. I respond to workflow enhancements and stability, where others are needing new features (which I also like!).
Maybe what makes DP great is it's uniqueness, and innovation. My box of DP 6 also sits unopened, and frankly I don't know where
I put it. At this point Logic 9 has piqued my interest more than DP 6. I've been with DP for many years now and I'm at the crossroads
of DAW's. I am grateful for all of the music and income I've made with DP. Cheering you on motu!

A couple of random quotes which popped into my head which might have something to do with the topic...

"I burn, I hope, I freeze again..." ~Sonnet #104, Petrarcha

"Hope oft deceives, but twice blessed is help unlooked for.." ~Lord of the Rings, Tolkien

Frodo wrote:A couple of random quotes which popped into my head which might have something to do with the topic...

"I burn, I hope, I freeze again..." ~Sonnet #104, Petrarcha

"Hope oft deceives, but twice blessed is help unlooked for.." ~Lord of the Rings, Tolkien

Another quote might be: "
Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me again and... you can't fool a fella again. Hee heh heh..."

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: Another quote might be: "
Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me again and... you can't fool a fella again. Hee heh heh..."

Funny-- but even funnier is that apparently lots of fellas have gotten fooled repeatedly!!

Frodo wrote:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: Another quote might be: "
Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me again and... you can't fool a fella again. Hee heh heh..."

Funny-- but even funnier is that apparently lots of fellas have gotten fooled repeatedly!!

Like guys who meant to write "once" and wrote "one."

What fools these 'morsels' be. ha ha ha

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
What fools these 'morsels' be. ha ha ha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ruJlNoymU

Thanks for that link Frodo. I was in high school when that song came out - really liked it then, and I still kinda like it now - interesting changes for a pop song, and a pretty beefy piano part. Pretty good quality live recording too. My recording-geek side noticed 'hey, that looks like a small-diaphragm condenser - maybe an AKG - that he's singing into. Don't see that too often - I'd expect a 58...' What have I become?