MOTUnation.com

And yet somehow, I suspect, the world will continue turning.

Frodo wrote:
Ah. We're to run all of those VIs and video files on USB2 drives now-- or over Airport/Bluetooth?

I wouldn't recommend that:

Although high-speed USB 2.0 nominally runs at a higher signaling rate (480 Mbit/s) than FireWire 400, typical USB PC-hosts rarely exceed sustained transfers of 280 Mbit/s, with 240 Mbit/s being more typical. This is likely due to USB's reliance on the host-processor to manage low-level USB protocol, whereas FireWire delegates the same tasks to the interface hardware. For example, the FireWire host interface supports memory-mapped devices, which allows high-level protocols to run without loading the host CPU with interrupts and buffer-copy operations.[18]

FireWire 800 is substantially faster than Hi-Speed USB.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire

I don't understand all the tech stuff in that Wikipedia quote, but it does seem to explain some things. I've been wondering why external drives with FW cost more, and why I started seeing drives with USB2 and eSATA connectivity, but not Firewire. I guess it's because the FW interface hardware includes a processor, which USB doesn't use, and which costs more to include in a drive enclosure. When shopping for OWC drives, for example, I'd see 'Oxford 912 chipset', and I never knew what that meant or why it wasn't mentioned for USB drives. And I guess it explains why FW is better for high-performance applications.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

I suggest everyone make use of that.

BobK wrote:I don't understand all the tech stuff in that Wikipedia quote, but it does seem to explain some things. I've been wondering why external drives with FW cost more, and why I started seeing drives with USB2 and eSATA connectivity, but not Firewire. I guess it's because the FW interface hardware includes a processor, which USB doesn't use, and which costs more to include in a drive enclosure. When shopping for OWC drives, for example, I'd see 'Oxford 912 chipset', and I never knew what that meant or why it wasn't mentioned for USB drives. And I guess it explains why FW is better for high-performance applications.

In short, USB relies on your CPU to transfer data, while FireWire has its own means and works in parallel with your CPU. Now imagine, every time you produce/record sound with your USB audio interface, it steals your CPU cycles that you could use to run more VIs, effects, etc. Every time you access your sampler library on your USB external drive, your CPU is handling all the data transfer, depriving your sampler of the precious CPU resources.

That's about as lame as the the Mac Pros not coming standard with wireless.....

I think we're much ado about nothing here. We've been advising AGAINST the Macbook (regular, not the Pro) and its predecessor, the iBook for a long time in this forum. Despite numerous success stories, it's the opinion of most users that you will be very limited on a Macbook using DP. Not that it can't do it -- I run DP 5.13 on my Powerbook G4 Titanium. But the lack of a discreet graphics card means that the GUI is handled in the Mac memory on iBooks and MacBooks. Powerbooks and MacBook Pros, on the other hand, have separate graphics cards with their own memory. That speeds things up a great deal, right there. Still, I agree that it sucks that Steve simply took away our option.

Shooshie

I'm not running DP on my MacBook (or any other DAW for that matter). I don't need graphics, I need small size, a FW port and fast enough CPU to handle multitrack recording. I use Metric Halo's MIO and it's working great for that purpose.

I've had some success with an old G4 iBook, but I use it in a very limited fashion for songwriting as part of a mobile setup in hotel rooms. I have the iBook, an M-Audio Ozone controller/USB interface and a Line 6 Pod and some headphones. It does the job, but granted it's essentially like having a Tascam Porta Studio with a bit more more power-- it's not intended to be anything more than a limited sketchpad. If I get something I like, I move the project over to my DAW machine and start expanding on the concept worked out on the iBook.

Shooshie wrote:I think we're much ado about nothing here. We've been advising AGAINST the Macbook (regular, not the Pro) and its predecessor, the iBook for a long time in this forum. Despite numerous success stories, it's the opinion of most users that you will be very limited on a Macbook using DP. Not that it can't do it -- I run DP 5.13 on my Powerbook G4 Titanium. But the lack of a discreet graphics card means that the GUI is handled in the Mac memory on iBooks and MacBooks. Powerbooks and MacBook Pros, on the other hand, have separate graphics cards with their own memory. That speeds things up a great deal, right there. Still, I agree that it sucks that Steve simply took away our option.

Shooshie

I tend to agree with you Shooshie, although I do wonder about the decision to leave out both firewire and the express card capability. I personally wouldn't run a studio on a MacBook, but if I were considering a mobile unit, a MacBook might make a good back up if there were some sort of firewire option, and now there is none at all.

Regardless of the MacBooks "suitability" Apple taking firewire 400 off As an option is ridiculous.
I use one in portable recording and multi-tracking, and it works fine.
PS:
Since the New Macbooks (apparently) have vastly superior integrated graphics, and other improvements,
such as faster bus speeds, ram, etc, having firewire left off is (as I said) REALLY ridiculous.

I hope someone picked up on the notion that my comment about USB was at least a little facetious.

My point was that we're moving from native integration to peripheral integration. No, we are not totally crippled, but it's true that my (our) next laptops will require external combo drives with multiple connections just to accommodate a native fw800 connection. Otherwise, it means using adapters.

Firewire 800 is not quite yet standard on audio interfaces (although some interfaces do have them), so another dongle-ish thingy to tote around is one more micro item to potentially lose in transport. Like most anything else, we buy two of them just in case.

Not to be alarmist, but frankly, it's making me take a look at PC laptops for the first time in a decade.

This thing can have up to 3 firewire ports w/ an Express-card: http://www.rainrecording.com/products/livebook/

Clearly, no DP, but I could run all my NI stuff, Pro Tools, Live, etc on Windows and Pure Data and Aurdor on Linux if I felt like going that route for live electronics, etc.

Not saying I'm ditching the Mac platform, but it is making me look around out of curiosity.

I thought the MBP had TWO FireWire ports before? So if they've taken one away, then the ExpressCard port can't be used for UAD-1 or an eSATA hard drive connection. No matter how you look at it, the new MBP is thus FAR less capable of providing proper connectivity in the studio or on the road.

I do find Apple's move (along with the bizarre notebook-only 24" LED expansion screen) to be a rather risky move on their part, given the state of the economy. Is this really the time to tell consumers they have to spend $1000 more to get basic connectivity?