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Normilize should be an easily availabe tool..period.
A well recorded audio file . That would be nice.....

Normilize should be an easily availabe tool..period.
A well recorded audio file . That would be nice...

But again, this implies using the Trim as an inserted plug-in vs. applying it from the audio menu, doesn't it?

And just to be precise, there are a couple of different sources of noise in the signal-to-noise ratio that we are talking about. There is noise floor all along the signal chain: mic, mic pre, A/D converter, etc. This is getting recorded to the track along with the desired signal. Increasing the volume of this track in any way is also increasing the recorded noise floor by the same amount. So really, when you Trim the volume of a track up 10dB and as you say that Trim is adding 3dB of noise floor, you really mean in addition to the 10dB increase to the recorded noise floor the processing is adding 3dB, don't you?

Also, Normalize can be undone, just as applied Trim can be. If for some reason (and I can't imagine what it would be) I decided that a normalized track was too loud, I would just undo it and go from there.

And here is a question: 32-bit floating point only exists in real time, right? A recorded track in DP at 24-bits is only 24-bits. The 32-bit floating only comes into play when you apply some type of processing to the track, such as inserting a Trim plug-in. But at some point this is being returned to 24-bits, so there is going to be some quantization errors at that point anyway, right? I do realize that processing is cumulative, so more inserted plug-ins in a row would equal less noise than at a pure 24-bit fixed, but if only one plug-in, such as trim, is being inserted, isn't the effect the same as applying the plug-in from the audio menu? And there is going to be quantization error at this point anyway, isn't there?

I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative. I'm learning alot from this.

..

My main point is...why not have Normalize be an option just like the Plugins (when applied) and Spectral FX.
Why is Normalize one of the only (fade in/out) destructive editing feaatures accessed ONLY by th Waveform Editor. Seems lame.

666,

I did actually see your previous message. I was sort of thinking we were on the same page. In any event, this discussion has altered the way I think about processing files or at least made me more aware of the effect of the processing.

There is no reason why 'normalizing' needs to be a destructive process.

How about renaming it 'Auto-Trim'?

Originally posted by porieux:
There is no reason why 'normalizing' needs to be a destructive process.

How about renaming it 'Auto-Trim'?

True, but it has to rewrite the entire audio file, so it would be doubling the amount of storage necessary to make it "undo-able."

Terrence -
No, when I said that gain changes introduce noise, I was referring to quantization noise, which is a result of the limited resolution of 24-bit systems. When you digitally cahnge gain its as if you are resampling - fractional values are rounded off and that results in more quantization noise - EVERY time you change the gain by other than a factor of 2, 4, 8 etc you add that same brand new very small amount of noise (something on the order of 96 db below max). So if you want to be a purist use as few stages of digital gain as possible (just as you should, for different reasons, with analog gain!)

Originally posted by quaver:
(something on the order of 96 db below max).

Actually, quantization noise at 24 bit is added at -144 dBfs which is far below the noise floor of any analog electronics. I wouldn't worry about it too much