DP6 : Hobbit Meets With MOTU

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:49 pm

Why are the static faders selected lost when selecting the bar at the top? You go through 100 tracks and select what you want to monitor in mixing faders and boom GONE!

Also the tracks side bar goes away when another application is online and I can't screen dump it. anoying!

Thanks!

richardein · Post by **richardein** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:56 pm

Frodo,

In order of interest:

I'd like to know exactly what the host buffer multiplier does. You, I believe, have reported anecdotal knowledge of improved performance in some cases by increasing the HBM even without a second interface. I believe I've seen the same thing. Since that seems to be a usage that is not covered in the manual, it would be good to know where reality lies.''

If that is too technical, I'd like to get a timeline as to when we might see a 64 bit DP and a 64 bit MachFive.

Buffy is not covered in the manual. Exactly what does it do? I know it delays tracks, but by how many samples? Is it tied to the global buffer that is set?

taylor12k · Post by **taylor12k** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:06 pm

frodo,

can you please address with them the issues of the UAD plug in behavior.. as well as all the other plug in issues (sound toys, etc).

problems seem wide-spread enough that it feels like a shame...

thanks

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:09 pm

One question I have is whether or not PPC support is going to continue over the next few iterations. Also, if DP is indeed coded in Carbon, is MOTU planning a move to Cocoa in the near future? I would think they'd have to...I just want to know DP is going to be around for the long haul!

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:28 pm

richardein wrote:Frodo,

In order of interest:

I'd like to know exactly what the host buffer multiplier does. You, I believe, have reported anecdotal knowledge of improved performance in some cases by increasing the HBM even without a second interface. I believe I've seen the same thing. Since that seems to be a usage that is not covered in the manual, it would be good to know where reality lies.''

HBM is set to the number of *different* audio drivers you are using. If you have two MOTU PCI interfaces, then your HBM is set to 1 because both are using the same driver. If you have a 2408 and an Apogee Ensemble, your HBM is set to 2 because two different audio drivers are in use.

Honestly? Because the interface won't appear without the driver installed, I don't understand why the HBM has to be set at all. It might be set automatically when one chooses their combo of interfaces. It is a little confusing, but I get the feeling that it may be something to not worry about. Still, if it's not to be worried about it could be streamlined. If there is a reason for it being the way it is, I will press for an answer under the umbrella topic of optimizing DP and the Mac for DAW work.

richardein wrote: If that is too technical, I'd like to get a timeline as to when we might see a 64 bit DP and a 64 bit MachFive.

I can tell you that we won't see that until OSX goes to 64-bit. 10.5.4 is still basically 32-bit by and large with some mysterious 64-bit data thru-put, but OSX is not wholly set up for efficient 64-bit memory addressing. Snow Leo is supposed to be the true beginning of this-- but how soon after Snow Leo comes to fruition when 64-bit memory addressing will be a reality will be more up to Apple. From that point, it's anyone's guess when any DAW will get there on the Mac platform, including DP.

Best case scenario? Snow Leo gets to developers in January '09 and DP gets there next summer-- but that, I think is being way optimistic. 2010 is my real guess, but I'll run the question through.

richardein wrote: Buffy is not covered in the manual. Exactly what does it do? I know it delays tracks, but by how many samples? Is it tied to the global buffer that is set?

Buffy was an add-on starting with DP3. I don't think it came with DP3 and had to be downloaded separately. While it's included now, I think its rather orphaned beginnings is just one of those oversights that never led to its inclusion in the manual, unfortunately.

It was offered initially before proper Automatic Delay Compensation was introduced in DP. Putting Buffy on every channel where it was needed was a pain and a waste of resources. But, I suppose that even now with ADC active someone may find a need for Buffy to further fine tune ADC per track rather than globally-- probably the reason they left it in.

I've never really had to use Buffy, but the name is a diminutive of "buffer", which means that each number represents a sample. If you want to delay audio by 5 samples on a track, set Buffy to 5. It's a little strange to click the + sign to delay a track, but look-ahead features were not available when Buffy was introduced, so sample delay is the only option (if that makes its function easier to remember).

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:40 pm

taylor12k wrote:frodo,

can you please address with them the issues of the UAD plug in behavior.. as well as all the other plug in issues (sound toys, etc).

problems seem wide-spread enough that it feels like a shame...

thanks

Will do. I will also couple this with some workarounds other users have found to get UAD working right. This may also go in the category of "what's up with the 8-Cores" where some people were having trouble with UAD-1 in DP5.x.

OldTimey wrote:One question I have is whether or not PPC support is going to continue over the next few iterations. Also, if DP is indeed coded in Carbon, is MOTU planning a move to Cocoa in the near future? I would think they'd have to...I just want to know DP is going to be around for the long haul!

Good question! I'm sure that DP will be around for "the long haul", but on a personal note I think Apple has yet to reconcile the potential fallout from PPC users being totally dissed with Snow Leopard.

Even as the iPhone 3G gets a $150 price drop next month (j/k, almost) that Apple could force its PPC users into Intel kicking and screaming or keep them in a dying Tiger could result in a rather stormy 2009.

I think MOTU will be caught in the middle of all of this like so many other developers, but I will ask what the impact of Snow Leopard might be-- if that's something which could even be disclosed as a hypothetical at this time.

Good Q.

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:41 pm

Ohh, I thought maybe this was going to be a private demo or consultation. It would have been interesting for a rep to witness firsthand the post installation process and first experiences opening files etc.

I guess as concisely as you can put it, or however you would like to word it; What are their plans for the GUI and have they considered GUI prefs, meter colours etc. or DP5 mode? How cool would that be... choose your interface

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:49 pm

RecordingArts wrote:Ohh, I thought maybe this was going to be a private demo or consultation. It would have been interesting for a rep to witness firsthand the post installation process and first experiences opening files etc.

I guess as concisely as you can put it, or however you would like to word it; What are their plans for the GUI and have they considered GUI prefs, meter colours etc. or DP5 mode? How cool would that be... choose your interface

That's a GUI question I can live with. Well done, RA! If DP6 is indeed Cocoa-friendly, users might at least have access to OSX's color panels via SHIFT-COMMAND-C (or similar).

I'll also throw in one question someone had about being able to choose black as a waveform color. It's so hard putting all of this together without having DP6, but these are very constructive questions which are of deep interest to me.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:10 pm

Frodo, fist of all let me tell you that you ROCK!

My question might not even be a good one to ask. I'm curious to know why MOTU chose the GUI for DP6. Did they take away the 3D look simply for aesthetics or was it done to increase performance? If it was done just for "looks", might they consider bringing back the 3D/Greyish look, at least as an option, for those of us who have physical difficulties dealing with the current GUI?

Also, is there a chance that we can have hundreds of fades in a project and have it respond as quickly as Pro Tools does? That's a biggie.

Again, my questions may not be worthy but, I thought I'd try anyway.

Thanks so much, man. I really appreciate your efforts and have a great deal of respect for you.

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:32 pm

who is fixing the plug in mas Au support. MOTU or the plug in manufacturers.

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:40 pm

Frodo wrote:
RecordingArts wrote:Ohh, I thought maybe this was going to be a private demo or consultation. It would have been interesting for a rep to witness firsthand the post installation process and first experiences opening files etc.

I guess as concisely as you can put it, or however you would like to word it; What are their plans for the GUI and have they considered GUI prefs, meter colours etc. or DP5 mode? How cool would that be... choose your interface
That's a GUI question I can live with. Well done, RA! If DP6 is indeed Cocoa-friendly, users might at least have access to OSX's color panels via SHIFT-COMMAND-C (or similar).

I'll also throw in one question someone had about being able to choose black as a waveform color. It's so hard putting all of this together without having DP6, but these are very constructive questions which are of deep interest to me.

Thanks

There's an option in the tracks overview window to have the waveform be black on white, (which is what I'm using right now) but it's missing DP5's "sliver" of colour across the top of the TO's waveform display that help the eye follow the tracks across.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:43 pm

666 wrote:Frodo, fist of all let me tell you that you ROCK!

LOL-- rock:

666 wrote: My question might not even be a good one to ask. I'm curious to know why MOTU chose the GUI for DP6. Did they take away the 3D look simply for aesthetics or was it done to increase performance? If it was done just for "looks", might they consider bringing back the 3D/Greyish look, at least as an option, for those of us who have physical difficulties dealing with the current GUI?

I like the idea of approaching MOTU with questions that invite them to expound on their intent-- at least in advance of making user requests. I will follow up with a request for expanded Cocoa graphical customizations.

666 wrote: Also, is there a chance that we can have hundreds of fades in a project and have it respond as quickly as Pro Tools does? That's a biggie.

Again, my questions may not be worthy but, I thought I'd try anyway.

Thanks so much, man. I really appreciate your efforts and have a great deal of respect for you.

Dude-- the fade thingy is easily the most commonly asked question I've gotten from DP friends of mine who are not even U-nation members. Not only is it a biggie, I'd like to know just what happens that the fade files get corrupted and have to be tossed out. Again, I've not heard from anyone with DP6 speak to this issue to the extent that the problem has even be resolved. What I'm afraid of, a little, is that this may be one of those issues that MOTU has not officially acknowledged as a "problem".

While we're at it, if anyone with DP6 is still having the fade redraw issue, let me know. If anyone runs across a DP6 thread where this issue has been observed, please post a link here and I'll check it out.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:50 pm

waxman wrote:who is fixing the plug in mas Au support. MOTU or the plug in manufacturers.

That would be MOTU since it's MAS. Let's see what the AU improvements are in DP6 as the week goes by. If there's a specific question about something that doesn't quite work smoothly, let me know.

RA wrote:...I'm using right now) but it's missing DP5's "sliver" of colour across the top of the TO's waveform display that help the eye follow the tracks across....

Yeah-- I've noticed the missing "sliver" which does help those like me with a slight astigmatism!

I'm one of those who reads the same line of a book three times without occasionally using a finger or piece of paper to get me back on track.

One thing that I'm hoping for is that being able to vertically expand the TO tracks might help this, but I've always expected that the Ableton 2D look for some buttons would take some getting used to for me.

Anyone have any thoughts on the 2D/3D combo?

Kubi · Post by **Kubi** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:16 pm

Just a friendly thought: I applaud your initiative in trying to get clarity on some of the questions raised here. But since I assume this is the event you are referring to, I personally have my doubts this event in particular is the appropriate venue to bring up detailed suggestions, ask arcane tech questions, much less air grievances. My inclination for such an event would be, let the folks sell their wares to new customers. We're all better off for it, and I doubt they'll be in the right mindset for the type of questions brought up here. So what's the use?

May I humbly propose that it may be a better idea for you, Frodo, to try and get a longer phone meeting with Magic Dave to address some of these points? Or, if Magic Dave is indeed the one putting on the show this Friday, see if you can get him to meet you in person at some point while he's in town?

Anyway, just a thought. It's a free country...

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:37 pm

Hey Kubi:

Thanks for the thought. I'm sure we'll all be hitting up someone at MOTU by phone at some point, as usual.

As for the "event", I know the WLA guys really well and based on my e-mail to them and their response, I think they understand what's going on. In fact, much of what I've asked of WLA in the way of questions are among those they want answered themselves.

Sure, the rep will do his song and dance to "premiere" DP6, and no-- I don't expect to get through all of the questions-- not during the presentation, anyway. I'm sure he'll be hit with questions of whether or not DP6 will record MIDI and similar noob inquiries, but he's not going to sit still with only that for too long.

I've also mentioned in my first post that I won't be presenting any gripes. But MagicDave is certainly around here often enough, and I wouldn't doubt if he hasn't read this thread already-- either he or someone else from MOTU. I also believe that MOTU has probably seen some of the less constructive threads as well, which could be a major factor in why we don't hear from MOTU more often.

My goal is to put a cordial face of curiosity on these issues with genuine interest. Two things will happen: either the questions will get answered or they won't. Either way, I'm going to report back with my findings. Anyone can call MOTU on their own, but not every is going to catch a MOTU rep in person. I think it's worth the effort if DP6 is worth anything at all.

I also think it's in everyone's best interest, including MOTU's, to have these questions answered.

"I will take the Ring to Mordor, but I do not know the way..." ~ Frodo, LOTR: Bk. II