Problem with RADIKAL SAC 2.2 via MIDI vs USB

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:01 am

rodger1811 wrote:Sorry for my late response to this but I am using a Radikal SAC 2.2 with Leopard and DP 5.1.3 without any problems. To use this device you don't have to use the drivers unless you want to use the built in USB hub. Connected via MIDI is all that's needed for the controller to work. It's rock solid and has native support with DP through the current release.

Thanks, that confirms that the problem I'm having under MIDI (spontaneous mode switching) is unique to me. I'l continue investigating my hardware.

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:04 am

Still seeing this issue; I decided to install DP6 on my Leopard partition only so I could easily switch back to my DP 5.13 setup. I was quickly reminded of my problems running the SAC under MIDI detailed above.

I wanted to see if I could connect with another SAC user in San Francisco to see if I could determine once and for all whether or not the problem lies with my SAC hardware or not by swapping in another unit. The test wouldn't take long, the random mode switching usually happens within 10 minutes.

To reiterate, this is not a Leopard issue, it happens when I run the SAC under MIDI control in Tiger as well.

Please PM me if you would like to help!

Thanks-

billf · Post by **billf** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:53 pm

In my admittedly limited testing, so far my SAC has been fine. I'll report back if I see any anomalies.

rodger1811 · Post by **rodger1811** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:32 am

Are you still attempting to use the built-in USB hub on the SAC? If so, I'd suggest that you not do that. Secondly, make sure that you have the latest firmware installed on your SAC. I believe the latest version is 3.04 and you can get it from http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/Serv ... loads.html

I've been testing with DP6 for a while now and I don't have any issues with my SAC at all! I've long resisted to change to a new controller because I just love the SAC! Other than the problems with the USB driver, it's been as solid as a rock for me. I don't use the USB hub on the SAC so it's a non issue for me. Keep me posted on this issue!

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:23 am

rodger1811 wrote:Are you still attempting to use the built-in USB hub on the SAC? If so, I'd suggest that you not do that. Secondly, make sure that you have the latest firmware installed on your SAC. I believe the latest version is 3.04 and you can get it from http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/Serv ... loads.html

I've been testing with DP6 for a while now and I don't have any issues with my SAC at all! I've long resisted to change to a new controller because I just love the SAC! Other than the problems with the USB driver, it's been as solid as a rock for me. I don't use the USB hub on the SAC so it's a non issue for me. Keep me posted on this issue!

Yes, I do have the latest firmware, I installed it several years ago; and no, I'm not trying to use the USB function when in Leopard as it simply does not work at all. The problem I'm having is strictly when using with MIDI , and it happens in Tiger as well as Leopard (and in DP5 as well as DP6). It feels like it's getting some kind of spurious MIDI signal that's causing it to switch modes randomly.

The reason I'm asking someone to help me out by swapping in a unit that they know to be working is so I can prove or disprove whether it's a problem with my system (i.e., the Fastlane or my cables) or with the SAC itself, in which case I'm just plain out of luck I guess. While I generally do not use MIDI for anything else and have no other MIDI gear, the few times someone has brought a device into my studio it's worked fine.

billf · Post by **billf** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:08 pm

ghobish wrote:... I can prove or disprove whether it's a problem with my system (i.e., the Fastlane or my cables) or with the SAC itself...

FYI, I'm using a MTPAV and have a bunch of hardware hooked up to it, including the SAC, and I'm not getting any sort of MIDI strangeness. AFAIK, the difference is you're using the Fastlane. Can you check that out by hooking it to a hardware synth and testing MIDI on it? Just thinking it might be easier to find someone up in the City who has a MIDI hardware synth/sequencer rather than an SAC user to run some diags, and if the problem appears in that scenario, you can eliminate the SAC as the source of the problem.

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:13 pm

billf wrote:AFAIK, the difference is you're using the Fastlane. Can you check that out by hooking it to a hardware synth and testing MIDI on it? Just thinking it might be easier to find someone up in the City who has a MIDI hardware synth/sequencer rather than an SAC user to run some diags, and if the problem appears in that scenario, you can eliminate the SAC as the source of the problem.

Good idea, that or find another MIDI interface and try that.

billf · Post by **billf** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:34 pm

ghobish wrote:
billf wrote:AFAIK, the difference is you're using the Fastlane. Can you check that out by hooking it to a hardware synth and testing MIDI on it? Just thinking it might be easier to find someone up in the City who has a MIDI hardware synth/sequencer rather than an SAC user to run some diags, and if the problem appears in that scenario, you can eliminate the SAC as the source of the problem.
Good idea, that or find another MIDI interface and try that.

That would work too. Try fresh cables too. Hopefully your SAC is okay.

MartinBaird · Post by **MartinBaird** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:51 pm

My SAC-2K has version 3.05. I think it may have been installed last year by Radikal's service center in New Jersey when I sent it in for repair. I still have 2 faders that don't follow the software reliably. maybe I should buy a used one on ebay for part.
Martin Baird

rodger1811 wrote:Are you still attempting to use the built-in USB hub on the SAC? If so, I'd suggest that you not do that. Secondly, make sure that you have the latest firmware installed on your SAC. I believe the latest version is 3.04 and you can get it from http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/Serv ... loads.html

I've been testing with DP6 for a while now and I don't have any issues with my SAC at all! I've long resisted to change to a new controller because I just love the SAC! Other than the problems with the USB driver, it's been as solid as a rock for me. I don't use the USB hub on the SAC so it's a non issue for me. Keep me posted on this issue!

dbender · Post by **dbender** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:13 pm

MartinBaird wrote:My SAC-2K has version 3.05. I think it may have been installed last year by Radikal's service center in New Jersey when I sent it in for repair. I still have 2 faders that don't follow the software reliably. maybe I should buy a used one on ebay for part.
Martin Baird

Martin,

Did you send it to them to fix the faders, and they didn't fix them? Or, is this a new development after you had other different repairs done?

Also, I'd really appreciate if you could please PM me with the address and phone number for this NJ service center -- my attempt last year to reach my only Radikal US contact -- chris in nj -- was unsuccessful when I had a service inquiry. Thanks very much!

MartinBaird · Post by **MartinBaird** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:20 am

dbender,
The last guy I talked to in New Jersey was Felipe Inoa. 201-836-5116. I had to leave messages for a weeke or two before he finally got back to me. From the outgoing message it sounds like it's a record company or something also.
I can't remember the exact timeline of fixes and problems I've had with the SAC-2K. I put it away for about 9 months and finally started using it again a month or so ago.
Thinking about it, I now remember that he walked me through opening up the unit and removing the controller circuit board. I sent only that to him and he was hoping that would fix things. It didn't and I never have called him back. I need to get it done. It's just hard to spend two or three hundred dollars on something that's only worth a couple hundred.
Martin

dbender wrote:
MartinBaird wrote:My SAC-2K has version 3.05. I think it may have been installed last year by Radikal's service center in New Jersey when I sent it in for repair. I still have 2 faders that don't follow the software reliably. maybe I should buy a used one on ebay for part.
Martin Baird

Martin,

Did you send it to them to fix the faders, and they didn't fix them? Or, is this a new development after you had other different repairs done?

Also, I'd really appreciate if you could please PM me with the address and phone number for this NJ service center -- my attempt last year to reach my only Radikal US contact -- chris in nj -- was unsuccessful when I had a service inquiry. Thanks very much!

dbender · Post by **dbender** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:36 am

Thank you, Martin.

A new problem that started recently with my SAC 2.2 (OS 10.4.11, MacBook C2D 2 GHz, using MOTU 828 MK 2 as the MIDI interface) is that the indicators on the pan knobs will, on their own, fairly frequently, just go all the way to the right, even though the pan position hasn't moved.

Turning the pan knob on the SAC just a tiny tiny bit either way snaps it out of this, and puts the indicator where it should, but then it happens again. Happens on all faders, w/o rhyme or reason. Sometimes shifting a whole bank or just shifting the tracks a couple of times (using SAC's track and bank selector buttons on the middle bottom) will clear this and reset the pan indicators to where they should be, but then it'll just go back to this far right position again. The problem is that the indicator always goes to the far right.

Anyone else have this, and what did you do/suggest to fix it? Thanks.

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:26 am

dbender wrote:Thank you, Martin.

A new problem that started recently with my SAC 2.2 (OS 10.4.11, MacBook C2D 2 GHz, using MOTU 828 MK 2 as the MIDI interface) is that the indicators on the pan knobs will, on their own, fairly frequently, just go all the way to the right, even though the pan position hasn't moved.

Turning the pan knob on the SAC just a tiny tiny bit either way snaps it out of this, and puts the indicator where it should, but then it happens again. Happens on all faders, w/o rhyme or reason. Sometimes shifting a whole bank or just shifting the tracks a couple of times (using SAC's track and bank selector buttons on the middle bottom) will clear this and reset the pan indicators to where they should be, but then it'll just go back to this far right position again. The problem is that the indicator always goes to the far right.

Anyone else have this, and what did you do/suggest to fix it? Thanks.

David-

This sounds very similar to the behavior I'm seeing, except in my case when the indicator goes to the right it's because the mode of the SAC has changed and the encoders are doing something other than panning. You're running the SAC over MIDI, right? Might I suggest, since you're still on Tiger, that you try running it from USB instead and see if that alleviates the problem? If it does, I think we might be seeing a behavior over MIDI that affects some SACs after a time. Maybe it's a known failure mode, but we'll never know because Radikal has abandoned the unit.

Gary

dbender · Post by **dbender** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:12 am

Gary,

Do you mean by "mode" that the SAC changes from Slave to some other mode, in the system settings? (I'll check this next time I see the fader indicator problem later today.)

It's been years and years since I ran the SAC via USB. How do I do it?

Do I just disconnect the MIDI cables, and hook up the SAC to the computer with a usb cable? Don't I need that usb driver file for the SAC, and assuming I still have it, should it be installed, or not installed, on the computer (isn't that needed just to make the SAC hub work, as opposed to making the SAC itself work). Just can't remember the set up steps for running the SAC via USB instead of MIDI. Any info would be appreciated and I'll give it a try.

Thanks,
David

ghobish · Post by **ghobish** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:47 am

dbender wrote:Gary,

Do you mean by "mode" that the SAC changes from Slave to some other mode, in the system settings? (I'll check this next time I see the fader indicator problem later today.)

David-
No, what I mean is that it switches from a"Pan" mode to some other indiator on the center button strip, like "Mix". The rotary encoders at that point do other functions (like controlling plug-ins) instead of panning. The only fix is to cycle power on the SAC and reset the Control Surface in DP.

It's been years and years since I ran the SAC via USB. How do I do it?

Do I just disconnect the MIDI cables, and hook up the SAC to the computer with a usb cable?

Basically, yes.

Don't I need that usb driver file for the SAC, and assuming I still have it, should it be installed, or not installed, on the computer (isn't that needed just to make the SAC hub work, as opposed to making the SAC itself work).

You can download the USB driver at http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/down ... Driver.dmg . Honestly, I haven't tried it on a Intel... It's needed for the SAC to communicate over USB both for it's hub and for it's communication with the host. After it's up, you will have to select that driver in DP's Control Surface Setup instead of the MIDI driver.

Until Leopard came along everything was just peachy with this method, it was rock solid. The problem I'm having under MIDI happens in both Tiger and Leopard.

Good luck-
Gary

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Problem with RADIKAL SAC 2.2 via MIDI vs USB

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