Digital Performer and MTP-AV USB

[David Polich]

If all you are doing is sending patch/bank changes to everything in your
rig,(or even additional info such as sysex), then you can already do this
in DP, you don't need the MIDI Timepiece, except as a hardware MIDI cable router.

Thank you David - Awesome suggestion.

I wonder - is it possible to cue a chunk by a program change? If so, it might be a very simple process of making the switch, plus adding VI's (which is where I was heading next).

Thanks for your help,

- Jim -

In setting up things for the MJ Tour, we thought of doing exactly this. The problem was that one cannot use a program change from a controller to switch chunks which then send a program change back to that controller. It creates a MIDI loop.

The Mac key solution worked best, and it's really easy to set up.

[jquesta]

In setting up things for the MJ Tour, we thought of doing exactly this. The problem was that one cannot use a program change from a controller to switch chunks which then send a program change back to that controller. It creates a MIDI loop.

It might work in my setting, as I use a K2500 as my master controller. My program change sets up the K2500 and sends a program change to the AV - the AV sets up everything else so there is no MIDI loop.

My main concern is availability of the computer. I'd prefer to keep it with my rack which sits about 6 to 10 feet away in most cases, although I've also considered keeping it up front so I can also use it as a teleprompter. Using a computer as a router / sound modual is a new world for me, so I suppose I'll have to rethink how I do things.

Great suggestions and many thanks! Most of these things I've never considered.

[David Polich]

Quick-Lok makes a dedicated laptop stand which will attach to
a keyboard stand. You can Velcro a laptop to it and it's nice
and stable.

And you can put your set list on the laptop screen. No more
paper set lists.

[n2mpujack]

Also, there is some kind of MIDI conversion software out there, but I can't remember what it's called. I've seen it mentioned here in the past month, so maybe someone will post it.

Are you thinking about MIDI-OX or MIDI Yoke maybe?
I've not used them.
I was hoping Clockworks worked better on my Mac than it does on my pc but I guess it's not to be. But like was said here, with things going to USB interfaced MIDI we'll not see any improvements. I would have to wonder how a USB hub will work for those of us with more keyboards than USB ports on the computer?

[ggm1960]

In setting up things for the MJ Tour, we thought of doing exactly this. The problem was that one cannot use a program change from a controller to switch chunks which then send a program change back to that controller. It creates a MIDI loop.

The Mac key solution worked best, and it's really easy to set up.

BTW, really enjoyed the article in Keyboard magazine recently. Stories like yours and the articles by Mike McKnight inspired my curiosity and desire to try DP and overall I'm glad I did.

[ggm1960]

I would have to wonder how a USB hub will work for those of us with more keyboards than USB ports on the computer?

It may be important to note that the max length of a USB cable is 16' while with MIDI you can theoretically spread things out to 50'.

[ggm1960]

In setting up things for the MJ Tour, we thought of doing exactly this. The problem was that one cannot use a program change from a controller to switch chunks which then send a program change back to that controller. It creates a MIDI loop.

It might work in my setting, as I use a K2500 as my master controller. My program change sets up the K2500 and sends a program change to the AV - the AV sets up everything else so there is no MIDI loop.

My main concern is availability of the computer. I'd prefer to keep it with my rack which sits about 6 to 10 feet away in most cases, although I've also considered keeping it up front so I can also use it as a teleprompter. Using a computer as a router / sound modual is a new world for me, so I suppose I'll have to rethink how I do things.

Great suggestions and many thanks! Most of these things I've never considered.

Many keyboards will also do the same things guys like us used Modifiers, Patches and MIDI Cannons for. For example I would have liked to use my Roland XP-30 in performance mode to send out patch changes to external gear over different MIDI channels, however, with that unit I was limited to only having 32 preset locations I could setup. Newer Fantom keyboards have 64. Korg keyboards have combis that can be setup similarly. I'm not experienced with Yamaha or Kurzweil, however, I know that some of their keyboards have similar functionality.

[fabianpbarbin]

I am currently trying to achieve the same thing with my keyboard rig.
I have a
Roland A70 with RD1 chip
Korg trinity and Triton
Roland JV 1080
Kurzweil 2500RS don't like sounds need to do something about this
D 50 with the programable editor with all the sliders
currently looking for a better bottom keyboard with piano etc

looking into the motif XS7 , Kurz PC 3 , or a used K2600
i like the sliders on these keyboards for control of volume with different parts for live playing.

I was looking to get a MIDI TIMEPIECE AV, i don't know which to get.
I read your responce and see that i can do all my program changes , MIDI merge and routings,
but then i see that some are suggesting using Digital Performer.
I used to own Mac computers but now i have a PC laptop. Is there another program out there where I could setup chunks and send all my program changes and possibly in the future start using virtual instruments?
I have to move kinda quick b/c the band i'm starting with is starting
their gigs in Feb.
thanks in advance

Fabian Barbin
Band Director
Keyboard Player

[ggm1960]

I am currently trying to achieve the same thing with my keyboard rig.
I have a
Roland A70 with RD1 chip
Korg trinity and Triton
Roland JV 1080
Kurzweil 2500RS don't like sounds need to do something about this
D 50 with the programable editor with all the sliders
currently looking for a better bottom keyboard with piano etc

looking into the motif XS7 , Kurz PC 3 , or a used K2600
i like the sliders on these keyboards for control of volume with different parts for live playing.

I was looking to get a MIDI TIMEPIECE AV, i don't know which to get.
I read your responce and see that i can do all my program changes , MIDI merge and routings,
but then i see that some are suggesting using Digital Performer.
I used to own Mac computers but now i have a PC laptop. Is there another program out there where I could setup chunks and send all my program changes and possibly in the future start using virtual instruments?
I have to move kinda quick b/c the band i'm starting with is starting
their gigs in Feb.
thanks in advance

Fabian Barbin
Band Director
Keyboard Player

There are as many answers to this as there are people to answer it but it really boils down to you knowing exactly what you want to do.

You can pretty much cover all the bases with Digital Performer 5/6/7 but unless you plan to create MIDI and/or audio backing tracks and play with a click then it may be overkill for you, especially considering you'll need to have a Mac computer, MIDI Timepiece AV USB (or other newer MOTU USB interface) and probably a multi-channel audio interface. This is the best (and most expensive) route but best for future expansion and if you plan to incorporate VIs.

If you just want to send patch changes to a couple different keyboards/rack synths between songs you can setup combis on your Triton to send patch numbers to daisy-chained keyboards that receive on different MIDI channels.

If you must do merging or have more than 3-4 keyboards on stage you're probably going to be better off with a MIDI interface. There are a couple paths with this route: You can get some cheap older stuff (MTP II, serial port equipped Mac running OS8-9, and the free ClockWorks program for OS8-9). With this setup you can create and run all your patches directly from the MTP II or trigger them from one of your synths.
The other route would be to get a USB MIDI interface to connect to your PC and then use Sonar, Cubase or a long list of other programs to setup your patches and channels. With this you can either load your sequences from the computer or use a program like Bome's MIDI Translator to trigger file opens from an external synth.

[Shooshie]

I am currently trying to achieve the same thing with my keyboard rig.
I have a
Roland A70 with RD1 chip
Korg trinity and Triton
Roland JV 1080
Kurzweil 2500RS don't like sounds need to do something about this
D 50 with the programable editor with all the sliders
currently looking for a better bottom keyboard with piano etc

looking into the motif XS7 , Kurz PC 3 , or a used K2600
i like the sliders on these keyboards for control of volume with different parts for live playing.

I was looking to get a MIDI TIMEPIECE AV, i don't know which to get.
I read your responce and see that i can do all my program changes , MIDI merge and routings,
but then i see that some are suggesting using Digital Performer.
I used to own Mac computers but now i have a PC laptop. Is there another program out there where I could setup chunks and send all my program changes and possibly in the future start using virtual instruments?
I have to move kinda quick b/c the band i'm starting with is starting
their gigs in Feb.
thanks in advance

Fabian Barbin
Band Director
Keyboard Player

Fabian, it sounds like you are just trying to get control over a live rig, is that correct? Are you planning to use any MIDI files in your performance? That is, will any of your tracks be canned? Or will you be playing everything live? If you're doing everything live, it dramatically simplifies things. There are many hardware units out there which can store setups for your entire MIDI rig and send patch changes at the touch of a button. For example, you might want to consider a Roland FC300, which is a foot-pedal unit which can store setups as well as add pedal functionality, including two expression pedals.


Now, how do you connect them all together? If you need complete MIDI connectivity to each device, the MIDI Time Piece AV would be a good choice because you're going to need at least 8 Ins and Outs. If you can daisy-chain some of those units together on one MIDI cable, you might get by with fewer ports. Clockworks (the software control that comes with MOTU MIDI devices) is awkward but functional. One thing it does allow is instant repatching of your devices, if you want to change your master keyboard or patch one rack unit to a different keyboard, etc.

Now, as for software: are you going to be recording/playing MIDI? If so, DP is an excellent choice for live shows. If you are only going to be using the computer as some sort of master MIDI patch-bay, then you might get by with just the MTP-AV and Clockworks. It allows you to save up to 8 settings, but you can repatch instruments easily on the fly. To repatch a keyboard to another unit, you select a "wire", delete it, and draw a new wire to the desired instrument.

I'm probably over-simplifying things, but suffice to say that none of this is actually easy until you learn it. Getting past the learning curve is the essential part of whatever hardware and software you choose, but I don't think DP's learning curve is as steep as some other software. It is a deep application, though, with seemingly endless tricks and features that can take many years to learn fully. Most critical accusations of its deficiencies are due to lack of knowledge on the part of the critic. Not that it's perfect or even close to perfect (nor is any other DAW that I know of), but just that for most problems you can find an easy solution. I might add that a number of us in this forum have done live touring shows professionally for much of our lives, and you have access here to some very fine people with some of the best experience in the business. If you can't find the answer here, well... it must be an awfully hard question.

Shooshie