MOTUnation.com

OK I know I keep posting this.... but I'm also really looking forward to DP6. I get tired of writing in Live, (love it, hate the lack of key commands for editing), and I recently did a test in both Logic and DP5 on what I was pretty certain of, DPs quantization features are %1000 better than either live or Logic. with the setting and Input Quantize turned on, all the clinical eighth notes I could ever want without having to step record them to get surgical.
Seriously, I often suspected this when I switched to logic in 2001, and it's confirmed, DP wins the quantization game, the others I never even used, I got better results just doing it without quantizing.

The main thing holding me back from using and getting used to DP5 over Logic 8 has been DPs lack of a concise Arrangement window like in logic, but Track Overview getting vertical zoom should cover this quite well!
Now only if DP didn't arbitrarily break up MIDI in Track Overview. I actually kind of like object oriented MIDI

I think DP 6 is looking great... I was looking around for a one stop shot DAW and ended up with Logic 8 when it came out- moving from Ableton and later Pro Tools. I only started getting into DP for a class, but I've got to say I think it's wonderful, I love working with it for video.

Shameless plug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQbIoKnCf1k

I'm not saying it's great or anything but I thought it could be funny and banged it out in DP in a couple of hours.

The only areas in which DP is lacking (to me) are the convolution reverb, and the instruments (which are a matter, largely, of personal taste anyway) all the loops and Foley stuff which makes Logic just fast for assembling things.

I'm looking forward to the reverb, I'm looking forward to the electric piano... I didn't know Sweetwater had DP up for a month now. But either way, it can't be too long... anyone know what the upgrade price will or will likely be?

Sweetwater does that all the time - posting products before they are shipping. Why, Brad, why??

I really thought I had the scoop here- I thought I was Jimmy Olsen.

Michael Canavan wrote:Now only if DP didn't arbitrarily break up MIDI in Track Overview. I actually kind of like object oriented MIDI

It doesn't have to be that way. You can set up how the Track Overview phrases MIDI. Read page 97 in the DP5 User Guide.

Resonant Alien wrote:Sweetwater does that all the time - posting products before they are shipping. Why, Brad, why??

Virtual Sales....you pay real money, you'll get your order---virtually, or is that verbally?

I thought I was Brenda Starr.

But as I'm reading the ad it mentions nowhere that it is not for sale at the moment! One would think you could just order it and get it. I wonder if they are taking preorders?

I forgot about the Limiter- I do love an LA-2A what little I've used of one. This is gonna rock whenever it comes out anyway...

666 wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote:Now only if DP didn't arbitrarily break up MIDI in Track Overview. I actually kind of like object oriented MIDI

It doesn't have to be that way. You can set up how the Track Overview phrases MIDI. Read page 97 in the DP5 User Guide.

Still isn't the same. In Cubase Live, Logic, you have MIDI represented much the same way audio is represented, as recorded blocks, and you can cut, copy paste, glue whole blocks of MIDI. In DP, MOTU decide the block of data, and it's up to you to manage that data by going in and manually finding the start and end points of a phrase.
Say you have a one second pause in a song, then DP makes it's cuts based on the end of a bar etc. and you have to zoom in to the quarter note to get a bead on the beginning of the next phrase.
All DP would have to do is take Track Overview to this level, i.e. set up an option for object based MIDI handling instead of having MOTU decide, coupled with having all MIDI in one big chunk in the Sequencer window, and DP would have the best of both worlds in one application!

Mainly it's been frustrating going back to old songs and having to manually edit them without any ability to move blocks of MIDI around like I can in Live or Logic. Say I want to experiment with cutting out chunks of a song to make it shorter, the option now is to make multiple versions and slowly move MIDI data around in a sequence. When you're cutting out parts, or adding parts markers are only so good of a method. In Logic if I do this it's dead simple, select all parts in the arrangement, and group into a folder, move to a muted track, and if I don't like the edit, move the data back.
Anyway I'm probably never going to see it, MOTU haven't implemented it yet, and it's been 15 odd years since sequencers started operating like this.

Now for a new song, this isn't a problem. I'll just create each part in a separate sequence, and load Chunks into a Song to see what order I like best. Then create a song sequence out of the Song, in order to use the Mackie Control etc.

Sorry not trying to highjack the thread, I miss DP, though I'm addicted to object oriented MIDI handling in many ways.

Larry Mal wrote:I saw it today in the Sweetwater catalog that has been delivered in bulk to my school. It is not for sale yet there though- not online. It is not mentioned on the MOTU site as being for sale yet either- just that catalog.

But it can't be long now! Power to the people y'all![/b]

where?? I only see DP 5 at sweetwater

http://www.sweetwater.com/c699--MOTU--DAW_Software

Only in the catalog!

Sorry, but am with Michael Canavan.
One huge problem I have had in adapting to DP (after years of region based apps, like PT, Logic, etc) is the MIDI side. With vertically sizable view in Tracks Window, this is one step. Let me have proper MIDI regions, and that is step two. The last step for me is to have MIDI region takes, via cycle record if I desire. It is simply a workflow I am used to, so naturally it would be nice to have. From the DP6 screenshots I have seen, the Tracks Window does look quite enticing!

Michael Canavan wrote:Still isn't the same. In Cubase Live, Logic, you have MIDI represented much the same way audio is represented, as recorded blocks, and you can cut, copy paste, glue whole blocks of MIDI. In DP, MOTU decide the block of data, and it's up to you to manage that data by going in and manually finding the start and end points of a phrase.
Say you have a one second pause in a song, then DP makes it's cuts based on the end of a bar etc. and you have to zoom in to the quarter note to get a bead on the beginning of the next phrase.
All DP would have to do is take Track Overview to this level, i.e. set up an option for object based MIDI handling instead of having MOTU decide, coupled with having all MIDI in one big chunk in the Sequencer window, and DP would have the best of both worlds in one application!

Mainly it's been frustrating going back to old songs and having to manually edit them without any ability to move blocks of MIDI around like I can in Live or Logic. Say I want to experiment with cutting out chunks of a song to make it shorter, the option now is to make multiple versions and slowly move MIDI data around in a sequence. When you're cutting out parts, or adding parts markers are only so good of a method. In Logic if I do this it's dead simple, select all parts in the arrangement, and group into a folder, move to a muted track, and if I don't like the edit, move the data back.
Anyway I'm probably never going to see it, MOTU haven't implemented it yet, and it's been 15 odd years since sequencers started operating like this.

Now for a new song, this isn't a problem. I'll just create each part in a separate sequence, and load Chunks into a Song to see what order I like best. Then create a song sequence out of the Song, in order to use the Mackie Control etc.

Sorry not trying to highjack the thread, I miss DP, though I'm addicted to object oriented MIDI handling in many ways.

I guess this debate will always be around. When I work in Logic, I feel like I'm wearing chains. I can't move around, and I don't feel the freedom I have in DP. I'm always wrestling with those damned regions. Why won't Logic let you just turn them off? It seems like such a mickey-mouse way of working. Is it so hard to select a range? Not for me. I do it in anywhere from a fraction of a second to maybe 2 or 3 seconds. Give me the freedom to select only what I want, any day. That's one of the chief reasons I avoid Logic for MIDI. It's just too slow and cumbersome.

Shooshie

Michael Canavan wrote:

666 wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote:Now only if DP didn't arbitrarily break up MIDI in Track Overview. I actually kind of like object oriented MIDI

It doesn't have to be that way. You can set up how the Track Overview phrases MIDI. Read page 97 in the DP5 User Guide.

Still isn't the same.

I realize it's not the same. The point I was trying to make is that the Track Overview does not arbitrarily create MIDI blocks if you set it up not to.

Edit: However, I totally understand your point.

Shooshie wrote: I guess this debate will always be around. When I work in Logic, I feel like I'm wearing chains. I can't move around, and I don't feel the freedom I have in DP. I'm always wrestling with those damned regions. Why won't Logic let you just turn them off? It seems like such a mickey-mouse way of working. Is it so hard to select a range? Not for me. I do it in anywhere from a fraction of a second to maybe 2 or 3 seconds. Give me the freedom to select only what I want, any day. That's one of the chief reasons I avoid Logic for MIDI. It's just too slow and cumbersome.

Shooshie

I'm going to a show soon, but I understand the need to have access to all the MIDI data as one long file, but in Logic you can easily do that, just select all MIDI data and glue it together. In DP the reverse isn't true, MOTU arbitrarily slices MIDI data based on a preselected amount, but you can't turn around and make your own divisions.
Also, in Logic in a piano roll/matrix editor if you want to view the entire MIDI sequence just select it in Arrange.

Quantization, and a few other areas, DP kllls Logic, but there are some trade offs. The only way to use MIDI and audio as blocks of information truly in block fashion is to use Chunks, which works very well IF you start off that way.

April 25th