MOTUnation.com

sck wrote:Wow thanks! Very interesting and no doubt painstaking work. Did you actually sort all this out by listening/transcribing from recordings or is it compiled from historical documents etc.---probably both? With my typical american indoctrination I didn't realize there existed names for scales beyond major, the three minors, pentatonics, whole tone, diminished and greek modes. Figuring anything else was just addition/subtraction/variation according to whim rather than established conventions.

Thanks sck. The info was compiled from many web sites and a couple of books, mainly the Guitar and Keyboard Grimoire books by Adam Kadmon. Some of the background is in the very top link of this thread, linking to a related thread of FM's. Making up clear readable charts was the main challenge, and then how to create all 12 keys, etc. I made up various templates in Adobe Indesign but mostly it was many many hours of tedious work - a labor of love though for sure. I learned a hell of a lot I can tell you that! It's a rabbit hole that goes as deep as you want - and that's not even touching microtonal scales - I opted out of those so my head wouldn't explode - next lifetime perhaps

Some links, which I also just added to the top post, as I want to have all links available there.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/modename.html

http://www.guitarsite.com/scales.htm

http://mitarbeiter.werkbank.com/mennigm ... ssi#Scales

http://www.jazzguitar.be/exotic_guitar_scales.html

http://jguitar.com/scale?root=C&scale=O ... tes=sharps

http://www.ushimitsudoki.com/scalculato ... lator.html

sck wrote:I didn't realize there existed names for scales beyond major, the three minors, pentatonics, whole tone, diminished and greek modes. Figuring anything else was just addition/subtraction/variation according to whim rather than established conventions.

Hi, sck.

Well, you can look at some of them that way, like just "variations" of other commons scales, indeed. But that approach is a little unfair to these other gazillion scales you can up with. Would you like to be called "your father's son", or by YOUR actual name??

Nah! Seriously. The nice thing of experimenting with all these other scales is that each one MAY have it's own unique harmonic progression, and you can feature it's unique color by harmonic and/or melodic means. If posted a thread about this a few days ago, if you're interested

http://www.unicornation.com/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=25838

Thanks FM. Great ideas. Theory is fascinatin'. I'm a fan of experimenting with modal progressions. Writing/performing I'm a rock n roller but I listen to plenty of jazz, etc. (Trane, Miles, Sharrock being the obvious influences re: THAT SOUND modal stuff) One of my early "showstoppers" was a riff in 12/8 Locrian verse, Phrygian chorus. Punk rock prog metal haha...Anyway I just wanted to say "hello,and thanks for the info and communique."

I appended the top post (once again) to include a link to a DP file I uploaded that plays a MIDI track of a C Major scale into a transpose plug-in loaded with lots of custom scales. It's an easy way to give them a listen and get a feel for them. This one is a DP 5.1 file but I can also upload a 4.6 version if someone needs it. Just select the scale you want in the right side drop down scale menu of the Transpose Plug-in, hit play and listen. There'a a Proton loaded but you can use any instrument you like of course.

The scales marked Symmetrical and Interesting are some of my scale experiments - just skip them unless you're curious.

I keep this file around and use the Load>Custom Scales command to load them all into any DP file I need.

Enjoy!

Thanks again Phil.

Phil

Found a cool video of the fabulous Jimmy Herring (Jazz is Dead - Aquarium Rescue Unit) demonstrating a a very cool 6 note scale in A built from an A triad and an Eb triad.
A perfect example of a non-normal scale in the right hands becoming quite musical and interesting. I think the key word here is "in the right hands".
I'm hetero but somehow still want to have his baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUKQfrGwhc

To that 2nd gtr player: "Dude! Yer playin' with Jimmy Herring. Tune your guitar!"

Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil, I just stumbled across this thread and want to thank you very much! I've always loved exploring the modes on guitar combined w alt tunings. I've just scratched the surface of your links..... lots of great stuff!

It's interesting to me how a lot of the modes have different names depending on the source of the info.... I like a lot of the modes like the "hebrew mode" , a modal variation of the harmonic minor scale.... in E the notes would be E/F/G#/A/B/C/D/E..... also attracted to variations of the lydian mode which Jimmy Page used a bit, modes like E/F#/G#/A#/B/C#/D/E....... lovely stuff!

Thanks again Phil for sharing your work with the rest of us!

funkyfreddy wrote:Hi Phil, I just stumbled across this thread and want to thank you very much! I've always loved exploring the modes on guitar combined w alt tunings. I've just scratched the surface of your links..... lots of great stuff!

It's interesting to me how a lot of the modes have different names depending on the source of the info.... I like a lot of the modes like the "hebrew mode" , a modal variation of the harmonic minor scale.... in E the notes would be E/F/G#/A/B/C/D/E..... also attracted to variations of the lydian mode which Jimmy Page used a bit, modes like E/F#/G#/A#/B/C#/D/E....... lovely stuff!

Thanks again Phil for sharing your work with the rest of us!

I am happy to hear your excitement!
Yes I have a scale labeled Jewish/Spanish- the title of which I found interesting in and of itself. A lot of these do have different names as one quickly finds out doing some research. I originally tried to separate them in 2 different books, Ethnic and Jazz. "Jazz", meaning everything non-ethnic. Then I realized that was an impossible line to draw so put them in one alphabetized HUGE binder. Well, two HUGE binders, one for keys and one for guitar...

As far as Lydian, some have said it's "more major than a major scale" which is interesting to think about and I tend to agree.
There are lots of Lydian variations in my charts, as that was one of our favorites to jam with. Lydian Dominant (1,2,3,#4,5,6,b7) and Lydian Diminished (which is a bit of a misnomer but I named tham as I found them) are favorites, and then there are Lydian Augmented, Lydian #2 and others. My charts are not all-inclusive. There are still more esoteric ones out there but it gets to the point of "Lydian b2 #3 b7" and becomes pretty incomprehensible...

I'm very happy to hear these are getting some use.

And another big "you're welcome" out to Monkey Man

Cheers
Phil

philbrown wrote:And another big "you're welcome" out to Monkey Man
Cheers
Phil

Aahh... you saw that, eh Phil?
You deserve every thanks and so much more.

Should I risk thanking you yet again?
Oh, bugger it - thank you Phil!

Should I risk thanking you yet again?
Oh, bugger it - thank you Phil!

Phew! Got away with it.

[Monkey saunters off whispering, "Thank you, Phil... thank you Phil...]