Recording Guitars and Bass

Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.

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Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
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SixStringGeek
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Post by SixStringGeek »

HCMarkus wrote:Give me the great player and we'll get a great sound regardless of the gear unless the gear is flat out broken.
Yeah, OK, but its me playing. So we're gonna need more help than that. :-)

Seriously, when you're a one man band, every little trick helps.

Although I will say I dug out my bass for the first time in years to do some tracking today and I seem to be a lot better player than I remembered - but I lack those right hand calluses on the first two fingers - I'm only good for about a half an hour a day before risking blisters. :-(
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James Steele
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Post by James Steele »

SixStringGeek wrote:Although I will say I dug out my bass for the first time in years to do some tracking today and I seem to be a lot better player than I remembered - but I lack those right hand calluses on the first two fingers - I'm only good for about a half an hour a day before risking blisters. :-(
At least you can play with your fingers. I'm a terrible bass player and when I do play I have to use a pick. Of course, I hazard a guess that have the young kids I see in most of the local bands couldn't play without a pic if their lives depended on it. People who approach bass as if it's just a guitar in lower tuning irk me. And unimaginative bass parts irk me to when it's obvious the bass player didn't even try. I used to like to say to a bass player I was in a band with years ago: "Dude... you're just root and fifth-ing me to death over there!" :D
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robstudio
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Post by robstudio »

Hi guys,
I'm only good for about a half an hour a day before risking blisters.
Six,
lol... no doubt ... I play guitar as well, I have a bass, only because it was too good of a deal not to buy ...lol love those .... anyway over played after I first got it ... those bass blisters are NO fun... friggin strings are like a cheese grater.
James,
Jeez, I wish we had 'root' problems with our bassist. LOL, he wants to be a guitarist, at least he plays his bass as such. As in not with a pic, with fingers ... I wish he wasn't so bloody imaginative ...lol Mega talented dude, but we all constantly have to pull the riens to get him to stop noodling up the fretboard and get him to 'hold the bottom' of the frequency range ...

Hey Six.... how'd you end up making out with your new monitor that went south on you???

On an unrelated note .... I bought an Ovation acoustic last week. My band hasn't been booked anything in a while, and between a recent move and much turmoil, I hadn't been playing. I see me doing acoustic gigs as oppsoed to full band stuff, in the future. Anyway I just wanted to say how much I'm LOVING playing again... and my new axe, what a beauty ... I can't leave it alone for a day, to let a little feeling back into my finger tips. All good though, very good place to be :) ... and James, that quote from Ozzy is sooo true... play me a riff that I can write a friggin vocal line to... ya noodlers ....lol ... I'm much happier to play old Gordon Lightfoot songs in my sandles.... Rocker gone folky...lol ....
Regards, Rob
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SixStringGeek
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Post by SixStringGeek »

robstudio wrote:
I'm only good for about a half an hour a day before risking blisters.
lol... no doubt ... I play guitar as well, I have a bass, only because it was too good of a deal not to buy
Heh - I won my bass in a songwriting contest back in the '80s. That was the prize. I guess that makes me an "award winning" songwriter. For the curious about what constitutes an award winning song in Albuquerque in 1985:
http://www.blackbagops.net/Songs/Subterranea.mp3
Hey Six.... how'd you end up making out with your new monitor that went south on you???[\quote]

Apple replaced it through the warranty repair program - but it took a week to get a new one what with sending the old one back. Kind of annoying to wait when you purchased a new one and it shows up DOA. But its all good now.
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Post by mhschmieder »

Wow, James, you're my hero now! Most guitarists think the bassist is just some dumb guy who can't handle playing more than one note at a time, or more than four (or five) strings :-).

As far as recording bass is concerned, there are many schools of thought on that, but depending on who your intended audience is (and your clients, if anyone butt yourself), it comes down to experimenting and deciding what you like best.

I used to religiously follow the advice of the "pros", until I noticed that I liked the sound better on vintage recordings than in newer stuff that represented the advice of the pros I was listening to :-).

So a few years ago, I went to a dual approach of combining the miked cabinet with the direct signal. For the direct signal I use my Avalon U5 DI (it's sort of a preamp, but the boundary between a DI and preamp can be hazy).

I initially thought I would mostly use the miked cabinet in the mix, but find that I use more of a 2-to-1 or even 3-to-1 ratio favouring the direct signal. I find that the miked signal helps add some warmth and personality to the sound (which is to be expected, as it is the sound that I react to when I am actually playing), but the direct signal is much cleaner and purer and easier to work with in the mix.

I apply very mild compression to the direct signal, but none to the miked signal as a cabinet already compresses the signal somewhat. And really I am applying peak limiting more than actually compressing the signal, just to avoid notes sticking out in the mix and becoming a distraction.

There generally is a delay in the signal reaching the mic vs. the direct sound, so in most cases I find I need to invert phase (not a technically accurate description of what that plug-in does) . This I do by ear, as it is an inexact effect since the signal may be off by less than half a period and so shifting it may do more harm than good. Yours ears will know.

I currently use a single Aguilar GS112 12" cabinet, and I stack it above a rack and use a floor mic stand to point the mic at an angle towards the middle (mid-way from the centre to the edge) of the low driver. I eyeball the distance but my guess is I position it about 4" to 6" away. My preferred mic at this point came from a gazillion on-line recommendations, and is a general purpose mic also favoured by drummers: Sennheiser MD421 mk II. I don't bother shock-mounting it when using it with the bass cabinet.

I generally play the bass at moderate volumes when recording. I need it to be loud enough that I can hear my own dynamics and thus play cleanly and consistently, but no louder. Judging by the settings I use on my power amp, I would guess that I play at half my normal volume when recording, which is about equivalent to the level of someone talking quietly.

For my particular setup of instruments, etc., I have found that this gives me the cleanest and most consistent signal to work with, and requires a minimal amount of post-production compared to other stuff like drums and guitar. But this is just one person's experience.

As for guitar, I don't know, because I no longer own a guitar amp and am not a good enough guitarist to want to record myself anymore. I cheat and use sample libraries at the moment, because they sound better than my own playing. One of these days I hope to find time to resurrect my guitar skills (I was a fairly proficient jazz and folk guitarist before I ever learned how to play bass, but that is by now many years ago).

In terms of basic tone quality though, I did a recent experiment and found that using my recently purchased Summit Audio TA100 half-rack tube amp (or DI if you prefer that terminology), seemed to come the closest to giving me a basic electric guitar tone that I could work with -- as opposed to something so clean and uncoloured that it sounds semi-acoustic.

The Avalon U5 also helps add some initial character to electric guitar, and a few years back I had great success using the ART MPA tube mic preamp series.

I haven't yet tried the guitar emulation mode on my RME Fireface, but plan to do so fairly soon. And I intend to record the guitar fairly clean and use Guitar Rig after-the-fact for effects (though using it in monitor-only mode during recording). I also find Guitar Rig to be useful in making a guitar sample library sound more like the real thing.

Hopefully someone else can chime in with direct advice about miking a guitar cabinet. Some like ribbon mics, some prefer two micsc at different positions, and the standard is the Shure SM57 pointed at an angle towards the cone. I have a Sennheiser Evolution 906 guitar amp mic that I bought recenty but haven't yet had a chance to try. Anyone local to the SF Bay Area who'd like to try it out, get in touch with me as I would enjoy having a reason to use it (my own playing wouldn't show it off properly :-)).
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robstudio
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Post by robstudio »

Hi,
Bass mic pour moi.... senn 421 ... fwiw ... I always record DI/CAB, 9/10 times, I end up with 421 only in the mix ... maybe just a tick of direct to hear the strings .... hmmm....
Regards, Rob
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Post by chrispick »

robstudio wrote:senn 421
I really like 421s on a lot of sources. They're my utility mic; I favor them over 57s usually. They're great on cabs, for sure. They're also great on a lot of percussion.

I never tried it, but I bet an SM7 could sound great on a bass cab. Or an RE20. Any of those "voiceover" dynamics that can handle heavy SPL might work.
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Post by robstudio »

Apple replaced it through the warranty repair program - but it took a week to get a new one what with sending the old one back. Kind of annoying to wait when you purchased a new one and it shows up DOA. But its all good now.
Glad to hear it, Six ... you had mentioned they were going to repair it .... glad to hear they replaced it. The weeks a bummer ...

Thanks for the vote on the mic, Colonel Chris, awesome on lots of stuff indeed.. did you know??? that mic was originally designed for voice. Interesting, then everyone realized how good they are for drums, they became known for that... I still love 57's on marshalls for guitars though...
Regards, Rob
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Post by monkey man »

chrispick wrote:I really like 421s on a lot of sources. They're my utility mic; I favor them over 57s usually. They're great on cabs, for sure. They're also great on a lot of percussion.
Kick drum? Toms? Trombone? Baritone vox? Tympani? Cowbell?
Just imagining sources that'd make that large diaphragm gently weep.

Classy mics, from what I can remember, CrispChick. :wink:

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