Studio talk then and now

[Jim]

I strive to maintain, despite my penchant for typos.

Anyway, thanks for the friendly sentiment.

Shouldn't that be: "I stirve to tmainrain my pechnat for tpyos. Thanks for the sediment" ?

[chrispick]

I strive to maintain, despite my penchant for typos.

Anyway, thanks for the friendly sentiment.

Shouldn't that be: "I stirve to tmainrain my pechnat for tpyos. Thanks for the sediment" ?

Exactyl!

[Shooshie]

It's all good in some context. People get territorial when they talk about their favorite music or art or fashion. For me, music is not an image. I was bitten by the bug of sonic fascination at a young age, 2 or 3, when I began playing 45 rpm records with a straight pin stuck through tin-foil (which was made of tin back then, not aluminum). No, the record player worked fine. I just had to understand what was in those grooves, and I created my own player out of things laying around nearby.

We had country western, pop, classical, and a genre I still don't know the name for, which consisted of orchestrally played music like tangos, fog-trots, and pieces such as "Jalousie," which I could probably arrange by memory to this day. Sort of old-world orchestral pops. I loved every one of them, including the country western, which I grew fond of long before I could understand what they were saying. Then it was more "cowboy" than C&W, but years later Dolly Parton would capture my musical interest just as much as the Sons of the Pioneers or Hank Williams. Plus, she was a helluva lot nicer to look at.

For me, the fascination is multi-level; there's definitely the technical side of it, but it first has to tell a story, musically. If there is no story, then it has to capture my fascination in other ways, such as the pattern structures of early Philip Glass--which, by the way, echo those of Bach and Beethoven. Glass just went to the core, where B & B made the patterns invisible to all but the more savvy listeners.

I've even arranged and performed rap music. I can't say I like the genre, but I've definitely heard some interesting works come out of it. But in general, the genre turns me off. Plus, it's noisy, and I like some beautiful textures now and then in my music.

Music is just how I live. I have to go to the mountains for silence, because I can't "just listen" to music. If it's playing in the background, I'm there. Analyzing, taking it apart, putting it back together, making something else out of it. Probably 90% of the time I do not know the name of the artist or the name of the song, but I know the music. People react almost indignantly when I don't know those names, but all my life I could care less who was singing it or playing it or what "style" it was. Either I liked it or I didn't, and if I did, it was fair game for inclusion into my project du jour. I'll practice Bach for a while, then Beethoven, Chopin, Debussy, and Prokofiev. But in between I'll be messing with Cole Porter changes or James Pankow licks, or Ralph Towner, or Beatles, or Willie Nelson songs. And pretty soon it's all coming out in one big mush that my kids would just call "ho-hum... dad's improvising again."

But classical remains my personal music. It's not about technical difficulty or any other superficial quality. It's about genius. Genius gravitates toward certain forms which are capable of supporting its weight. You can find genius in any form -- Dolly Parton is a songwriting genius -- but I'm talking about that genius for the ages, the kind which carries a generation's contribution to the "Great Conversation" that defines all art. And yes, it does require a certain sort of education to really appreciate and participate in that conversation. Again, I'm not speaking in terms of image or territorialism; it's just a fact. You don't divine the depths of Bach by listening to recordings (though it helps, of course). You can only get to his genius by playing the music yourself, analyzing it, and playing more. Like mathematics, you can't appreciate it without a certain type of education. You simply have to learn the language first.

So, we have all types of music and musicians here, and none should ever feel slighted or intimidated by the others. I'm 98% musically agnostic. I do NOT think that all music is created equal, but after a certain point it's all subjective.

Ok... enough... I'll get off my soap box now. I just wanted to clear the air about the idea of musical snobbery or territorialism. We all have our tastes.

Shooshie

[twistedtom]

That is about the way I feel Shooshie. One thing although, when you made your own turntable did you do the rap record scratch thing? Just a joke.

[monkey man]

I was going to suggest the odd Renaissance-mind wouldn't go astray today.
Seems my observation's redundant.

Wow, and he lives on our desktops, too.

[monkey man]

I'm am pretty well-trained in English composition, though (my undergrad degree). I'm actually kind of passionate about writing. It's my other personal artistic endeavor, and a form of communication I strive to maintain, despite my penchant for typos.

I thought I smelled a drumstick.

Anyway, thanks for the friendly sentiment.

I felt silly posting it and was a little worried you'd find it a tad patronising.
Thank God you didn't, C; I really was blown by the magical flow of those two sentences.
Gold!

...Thanks for the sediment" ?

Said substance having originated from an orifice of the ape-man, that's probably not a bad call, Jim.

Cheers, fells
Nicky

[HCMarkus]

I have to go to the mountains for silence, because I can't "just listen" to music. If it's playing in the background, I'm there.

That's the sad part about being musicians... we have lost the ability to simply enjoy music casually the way most folks do. On the other hand, I wouldn't trade my ability to get inside a song for, with a few exceptions, anything.

[kelldammit]

it's kind of a double-edged sword...i hate hearing something i think i like, but on analysis...it just doesn't work for me like it did hearing it where i couldn't really pay attention or focus on it.
on the other hand, i think that the tearing apart and analyzing thing is part of the great part about being a musician too, though...because by your own experience, i think you get a much more profound sense of appreciation in a (in your opinion) well-written/arranged/produced piece of music. i think it really increases the enjoyment and perpetuates the sense of wonder and awe that inspires you to try new things and grow.

i'm pretty much all over the place with with music, visual art, films, etc. whatever it is, it just has to move me. i want to be manipulated. i really like to feel different after listening to or seeing something than i did going in. that to me is the real magic. usually, at the end of the day, you can ask me why i like something, and i can usually give pretty specific reasons. the answer is never "because it sucks". in the end, i guess you just have to bait the hook just so before i'll bite, but usually if i bite, i am totally caught.

my main disappointments/frustrations with a lot of popular music would have to be:
1. i hate knowing exactly what's going to happen, and when. after too much of that, it becomes hard to suspend disbelief.
2. i hate the big dumb chorus when it ruins the vibe that creative and interesting verses work so hard to create. i find that frustrating to no end.

[kinnylandrum]

I was thinking about this thread, and about the upcoming Grammy nominations, and thought of a chorus from my old friend Allen Toussaint who may be nominated in a few hours. So I came up with this (pay attention monkey man):

Play something sweet, play something mellow
Play something I can sink my teeth in like Jello
Play something I can understand
Play me some Brickyard Blues

Play something sweet, now make it funky
Just make me lay back and grin like a monkey
Play something I can understand
Play me some Brickyard Blues

'Nuff said

[monkey man]

Monkey pops his head up in a manner typical of a pet that recognises his name or hears the word "walk".
Then, in a manner similar to the aforementioned pet, he wonders what on earth happened.

[markwayne]

Just because I strive to understand and appreciate sonic and compositional complexity doesn't mean I've crossed some aesthetic threshold which prevents me from enjoying more prosaic, populist music. A more complicated equation doesn't always translate into a more eloquent or affecting one.

Or, in other words, I think "That song is hard to play and thus it's awesome" is as useless and defeating a statement applied to life-long musical pursuits as "That song is easy to play and thus it sucks."

While I hear where you are coming from I have to say that, in my experience, this just doesn't happen much with my hyper-educated musician friends. The whole point of education is to expand your pallette and your enjoyment of life itself. Most of my friends actively seek out new stuff from every genre for inspiration. I have a friend who is white, 64 years old and teaches classical composition at a local university and he is constantly turning me on to wild, underground, hip-hop artists and lots of other stuff that I can't figure out where he finds.

Generally speaking, the musicians I see talking up the "it's got to be almost impossible to play or it's not worth listening to" line are those driven by insecurity rather than knowledge.

Wayne

[mikebeckmotu]

Monkeyman almost made me spit out my Guinness with his last post. That would have required a stern email for wasting aforementioned Guinness.

[monkey man]

Thanks, Mike; you've made my day.
Nicky

[twistedtom]

Shoeshie said

Music is just how I live. I have to go to the mountains for silence, because I can't "just listen" to music. If it's playing in the background, I'm there.

I had to move to the mountains out side of Portland. Every one who visits always notices the silence, although the birds can get to singing.
This is where my studio is.
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This is me.
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The toy room.
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[Phil O]

For me there is no silence. 24-7 there's a song in my head. It's just always there - usually the last thing I heard, but not always. Right now it's "Rusian Sailor's Dance."

The real hell is when the last thing I heard is real CRAP. AAAHHHHHH!!!

Which sort of ties in with this topic...I think.

Phil