MOTUnation.com

arth wrote:Nope, I don't run DP (anymore). There's a lot of decent PC programs, and even Linux is starting to get pretty good, with apps like
Rosegarden and Ardour.

Good reasons for using a PC, arth. Apps on both platforms offer much, but knowing what app works well with you is the most important reason for choosing a platform.

I've entertained getting some sort of PC setup-- but I need to muster the courage to tackle Windows again. I think Vista just might be the OS that will have me considering adding a PC as part of a network. I don't think I'll ever leave the Mac, even if the day will come when I no longer use DP. Time will tell.

Windows boxes always look good when you look at their specs on paper. When you start using them, it's a different story...

You write that 'OS X is pretty'. I can't believe that anyone would choose an OS for the looks. How familiar are you with OS X? Here is a short list of things you won't find in Windows:

Spotlight, Expose, spring-loading folders, column view, Automator, Stickies, Smart Folders, Labels, Services, Core Audio, Core MIDI, iTunes & iDVD & iPhoto & iMovie & Garageband free with every new Mac and fully integrated with each other, Dashboard, pdf integration, FileVault, Keychain; free Developer Tools; open source Unix foundation; ...
System Folder is owned by root & OS X comes with all ports closed & installers require admin authorisation -> no spyware; no viruses as of today; ...

Here's a link with some good points about security..

When you want to set up a good workflow, it helps to be somewhat familiar with the OS. A good introduction is David Pogue's "Missing Manual" for OS X. Even if you read only the first chapter about using the Finder, you will find many things that will improve your workflow (and that you cannot do on Windows).

Frank

stratology wrote:OS X comes with all ports closed

No, it doesn't. Do a "netstat -a"

arth, I think you're right.

Doing a portscan for localhost in the Network Utility shows 3 open TCP ports (although my setup is not the same as the 'out of the box' setup on a new Mac).

The main reason why my point is not valid is that Microsoft fixed the 'all ports open' issue when SP 2 came out, so it applies only to users of older versions of Windows.

The other comments about security still apply...

Frank

cmcenearney wrote: overpriced hardware

Macs are competitively priced with the equivalently configured name brand PCs. In some cases, Macs are cheaper than the equivalently configured name brand PC.

So please, enough with this tired old FUD.

---- ON EDIT, from BUSINESSWEEK ONLINE:

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technolog ... 201871.htm

Business Week: The Mac Pro: More Vroom for the Buck
With the equivalent of a V-12 engine, this media powerhouse is cheaper than a tricked out Dell

---

cmcenearney wrote:My main gripe with apple is not the OS, although I do think that the way they bullied everyone into switching was a pain in the arse, particularly for people like me who were running dp3 on os9 on an older machine that couldn't handle the much more intensive cpu usage of osX.

Um, did you ever talk to anybody about their transition from Windows 98 to WindowsXP?

Time marches on, technology changes. On both sides.

It is not as though your DP3 OS9 mac stopped working when OS X was released. My OS 9 machine still works fine -- I guess the lightning bolt Apple sent thru the internet to kill all old machines must have missed me.

And quite frankly, my Mac from that period is a HELL OF A LOT MORE USABLE in OS X than my PC from that period is w XP. YMMV.


---

Again, get a PC if you want one. I have one, and I make good use of it as a machine that's secondary to my Mac. I am just trying to tell you that it is not the wonderful panacea you seem to imagine it is.

Quite frankly it is a pain in the ass to maintain, and if I didn't absolutely have to have it for other reasons, I would be real happy to get rid of it.

--

I posted this thread very shortly after joing this messageboard, at a critical juncture when I had to replace my only computer and make some decisions about which way to go regarding platform and recording software. I decided to stay with DP and upgrade to 5, and to buy a used G4. The information on this board has been very helpful, including the replies to this thread. Thanks.

I have to say, personally, that the most interesting thing i've learned of while researching the current "state of the union", as it were, is the possibility of being able to run osx on "generic" machines. Hackers are already doing it, illegally. I hope that apple will decide to bring their os to the masses because, whether or not they're "better" than a mac, the daws being made by people like adk, endpcnoise, dawbox, etc are pretty bad-ass. I don't see how that wouldn't benefit us.

It is not as though your DP3 OS9 mac stopped working when OS X was released. My OS 9 machine still works fine -- I guess the lightning bolt Apple sent thru the internet to kill all old machines must have missed me.
Again, get a PC if you want one. I have one, and I make good use of it as a machine that's secondary to my Mac. I am just trying to tell you that it is not the wonderful panacea you seem to imagine it is.

As for this, I didn't say it was a panacea, just more machine for the money. If yours is a pain in the ass to maintain then maybe you should get a new one, perhaps something 3-4 times as fast as the fastest G5, maybe in the $1600 range...

cmcenearney wrote:If yours is a pain in the ass to maintain then maybe you should get a new one, perhaps something 3-4 times as fast as the fastest G5, maybe in the $1600 range...

Oh the PC I have is a speedy, a newish AMD something or other -- the performance is not what makes it a pain in the ass. Windows and all its assoc headaches - annoyingly intrusive user interface, dumbass third party installers, driver conflicts, arcane bios update procedures, annoying virus protection, etc are what make it a PITA.

Good luck w your new machine. G4's are going for dirt cheap and still have some life left to them.

And by all means if you want to get your feet wet w windows by building a box by all means do it.

All in all -- good luck

emulatorloo wrote:Macs are competitively priced with the equivalently configured name brand PCs. In some cases, Macs are cheaper than the equivalently configured name brand PC.

They have gotten a lot better about that, but one thing many people don't consider when comparing prices in that way, is that most people who have used PC hardware long enough to understand the different standards used for the internals, won't usually end up selling off their complete rig and replacing it with each upgrade. I did that many times in my Mac days and it never really got any easier to swallow (of course the joy of walking in and seeing the shiny, new, tail-kicking machine helps a bit). After my first experience with PCs, I learned to avoid the chain store "home computer" brands, and I don't think I've replaced a complete PC in one swoop since then. They usually get bumped up a piece or two at a time, and the main CPU/motherboard upgrades tend to run in sort of a "cycle", where the big rig at the studio gets a major transplant, then all the machines below it (a secondary studio rig and my home junk) get knocked up a notch by what came out of the other one. I haven't been keeping up with the new Mac hardware, but maybe things will change due to that. They have done some nasty things in the past that wouldn't make that seem too likely, but who knows.

George

PS- Anybody running PCs would be wise to get good with XPLite (www.litepc.com), as well as learning to tinker around with the appearance settings, the services panel, and all other related crap. It's not as bad as it sounds and a little common sense caution (or Norton Ghost) will keep you from screwing anything up. The first thing I do after a new XP install is to make it look and feel like 98SE. - I did the same sort of thing on my Macs.

Jidis wrote:PS- Anybody running PCs would be wise to get good with XPLite (www.litepc.com), as well as learning to tinker around with the appearance settings, the services panel, and all other related crap.

Thanks for the tip on XPLite. . .that looks damn good. Downloading the manual now.

--

Unfortunately, 98Lite was a much more dramatic difference. Stuff's gotten so ridiculously bloated with the services and eye candy crap now, not even Shane Brooks can save it. He'd probably be able to do better if he was working with MS on it from the inside. Still worth looking into, but sitting around for a half hour or so, turning things off and "dulling down" my user interface, by conventional means, usually makes a more noticeable difference. You actually get good at it after a few installs.

Take Care

cmcenearney wrote:I posted this thread very shortly after joing this messageboard, at a critical juncture when I had to replace my only computer and make some decisions about which way to go regarding platform and recording software. I decided to stay with DP and upgrade to 5, and to buy a used G4. The information on this board has been very helpful, including the replies to this thread. Thanks.

Hey, you might find this thread interesting -- there are others like it around here too:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... highlight=

---

Feel free to PM me if you want G4 advice, ie which models are good, which to avoid etc (because I did something similar to what you are considering a year and a half ago). I can tell you my experiences and what I would do differently now.

---

Jidis wrote:They have gotten a lot better about that, but one thing many people don't consider when comparing prices in that way, is that most people who have used PC hardware long enough to understand the different standards used for the internals, won't usually end up selling off their complete rig and replacing it with each upgrade. I did that many times in my Mac days and it never really got any easier to swallow

Kinda relevant - In their review, anandtech does a price comparison between Dell and MacPro, and sorta gets a bargain (but not really, cuz no OS) by shopping @ newegg. Seems like apple really got the pricing good on this one

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816


<snip>

The Dell is clearly more expensive, although you can knock off $100 - $200 thanks to the bundled LCD (unfortunately Dell gives you $0 credit if you remove the monitor from your order). We're able to come close with our own configuration by shopping at Newegg and other vendors through our shopping partner, but note that the $2390 total does not include an OS, case or power supply.

<snip>

Wow, that anandtech article is great!
I take it all back. I stand corrected!!!!!

Emulatorloo, thanks for the offer. I wish I'd talked to you before running out and buying a used dual 1.25 G4 MDD. Somehow, in all of my lurking on this forum and the tapeop board I never heard about the noise problem, or it's infamous nickname the "windtunnel". There was a lot of ambient noise when I bought it, and I didn't realize until I got it home etc. I suck, basically. Anyway now I'm trying to figure out how to silence it. Swap the psu fans, new case, something.....

cmcenearney wrote:Emulatorloo, thanks for the offer. I wish I'd talked to you before running out and buying a used dual 1.25 G4 MDD. <snip> Anyway now I'm trying to figure out how to silence it. Swap the psu fans, new case, something.....

That is a nice machine -- do you have this firmware update? Supposedly helps w fan cycling:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120186

Apple offered a replacement powersupply for a while -- maybe you could find one on ebay:

https://depot.info.apple.com/generic/index.html

Maybe more practically, this guy replaced his fans:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/g4_m ... ction.html

There are some notes at the bottom of that article that are relevant too.

OR -- you could build an isolation cabinet if it really bugs you:

http://www.billshafer.com/isobox.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here also another one, based on a bush furniture office cabinet -- this is a linked word document, but his box looks mighty good:

http://homepage.mac.com/osxlover/ParisFAQs/isobox.doc
-----------------------------------------
Another one here:

http://efod.se/writings/quietbox
---------------------------------------------
Some general ideas from an electronic musician article:

http://psbg.emusician.com/ar/emusic_sound_silence

<snip>

If you decide to take the DIY route and build your own custom isolation box, be sure to keep ventilation in mind. A simple plywood box with some acoustic foam on the inside can provide significant noise reduction if you're careful to make tight-fitting seams and caulk them to prevent any leakage. Use weather stripping to ensure a tight fit on the doors, and put intake and exhaust fans on the back of the unit. You can even make your computer's case into an isolation box by lining the inside with absorptive foam and sealing any gaps. Remember, you'll need to leave at least one hole for air intake and another for exhaust.

<snip>

-------------------------------

GOOD LUCK and have fun!!!