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zara_drummer wrote: I also play high end drums which is probably more important that mic use in my opinion...Bad gear=bad sound.

Not to provoke an argument, but I have a differing opinion on the matter. I, too, have played drums for many years and play a high-end drumset (Yamaha Birch Custom Absolute), and to an extent I agree that well-maintained and well-built gear will tend to make life easier. However, I would venture to guess that any serious drummer can make just about ANY drumset sound good! Take, for example, controversial Behringer gear: If the engineer is competent enough, he or she will be able to work with whatever they are given.

I bet you, Zara, could get behind any set of drums and find a way to work with them. Ever play a house set? It's just who we are! We have to play Macgyver sometimes!

I guess I'm saying that I'd rather record an incredible drummer on an entry-level drumkit, than a mediocre drummer on a high-end set any day of the week.

Therefore, my priorities would be the musician, the microphone technique, and then the type of drums (although, that can influence your microphone technique).

Rock on.

I agree with that...and disagree...

for many years I played on an old Tama Superstar kit from the early 80's. old birch shells...Those were my favorite drums ever lol...till I got the DW's I currently have.

When I used to record, using the same Mic's I listed above I had a hell of a time getting a decent Kick sound...Good heads, but the shells on my old drums were just dead.

Ya I've played on a house kit a few times, but lucky enough that the house kit was in better shape than my drums!! lol

My first priority as is always the musician...If they are not ready or able to play than it wont turn out well...The quality of the instrument is always a concern for me though. Sure we've made crappy drums work in a live situation, but if your gonna spend all this time and money recording than why not use the best equipment you can get your hands on?

Case in point...My band did an actual studio recording a few years ago at a place called the The Saltmine...Awesome studio...I didnt have my DW's yet, so I played on theirs...but used my cymbals and snare. My guitar player uses Ibanez Guitars but when it was time to record his dirty tracks, we used the 61 Les Paul studio thru the Mesa dual rec....

See what Im saying??

I'm glad I found this forum, thanks for the great response!! Rock on bro!!

Sure, sure. I get what you're saying.

But that's just simply a case of using the best gear you can get your hands on. And hey, I'm all for that. But if you don't have the opportunity or luxury of high-end gear, then you're still left with the musician and the microphone placement, which I still feel are far more crucial to making or breaking a recording than what brand or type of wood shells they would rather be playing.

Skilled musician and skilled engineer = great recording. For they are the very foundation of the means to your end result.

But to your credit, high end gear can only help the above two people to work their best! Whether or not a drumset is considered "high-end" by our standards is irrelevant once a good drummer is involved with the project. I guarantee that when I see a good live band with a good drummer, the first thing I'm NOT thinking is: "Wow, what a high-end drumset!"

I see where you are coming from ("garbage in, garbage out"), but I still believe a great drummer can make nearly any set of drums sing.

I finished my drum mic research a week ago and ordered some drum mics this week, after finding some excellent prices. I ordered the Beyerdynamic M201TG for snare drum, the Audio Technica ATM25 for the low/floor toms (set between them), the Audio Technica AE5100 for close-miking the hi-hat.

I already own the excellent E/V N/D 868 for kick drum, and this is the most neutral and transient-friendly kick mic out there. The Shure Beta 52 is great (and better than the AKG D112 by a long shot) but is highly coloured, and thus not a general purpose kick drum mic for covering every style of music olt there like the E/V.

I've put off the pair of Behringer B5's for now, and will once again use my Audio Technica AT825 XY-stereo mic as a centred overhead 6-8' above floor level. If I still find the high/rack toms being lost in the mix, I might try the B5's between the cymbals and toms on either side of the kit, and as a final step (if necessary) eventually go to either a group mic for the high/rack toms and a group mic for the cymbals (Sennheiser e914), or possibly clip-on mics (Sennheiser e904) for the high/rack toms.

I learned a lot from the postings here, and it helped a lot as I went back and reviewed my books and articles from Mix Magazine and Electronic Musician magazine (both the periodicals themselves, and on-line articles and books published by those magazines and/or their writers). Some of ther Sound-On-Sound reviews and technique articles were also immensely helpful in gaining a better understanding of which sorts of mics work best for drum miking when you are covering multiple genres of music.

careful of the clip on mics...they are great for live, but unless you are gating the toms, they will ring.

the DW's I play on...The toms sing when I play, and they arent even mounted on the kick.

I usually gate the toms post, but it can be awefully annoying when you can hear the grumbling of your floor tom in the mean time. lol

Thanks for the heads up. I had noticed that most recommendations for clip-on tom mics did seem to be with live setups in mind, but I thought that had to do with the convenience factor of them not hiding the drummer from the audience and didn't realise there were some strict technical issues as well. I know many people advise removing the bottoms from the toms, but I have never encountered a drummer who's willing to do that.

Anyone know if there's any real difference between the Behringer B5 and the Studio Projects C4? Their specs are 100% identical, as are their feature sets and design. Yet end user reviews at various on-line sales sites give the C4's much higher marks and say they have a smoother and less hyped high end, a more present low end, and better construction. My local pro audio store begs to differ on this matter, and they sell both brands so have no incentive to push the cheaper of the two mics .

I compared the on-line specs and reviews and decided it's worth a little extra to get the C4's vs. the B5's. I am bidding on an eBay auction that ends in two hours and expect to win them. The C4's have an arguably better frequency response and polar coverage for both cardioid and omni pickup patterns; although not on a huge scale of difference. But I think it's also worth it to get the nicer overall packaging for long-term wear-and-tear and for stereo-matched pairs (although the B5's are said to be consistent enough that it doesn't even matter if they're bought from the same batch).

I look forward to owning my first-ever pair of omni mics (whether ot not I use them that way often), and getting some first-hand experience with what a couple of omni's in the mix does for overall ambience and "air" in the recording.

I agree on a well set up Drum set as well.
I use dampening rings on the toms and snare to reduce the ring, feedback and that Mr. Makie report "Umkay"

I use Audix fussion mics and with the tunning and rings on the heads, I can bring the volume up to 0 and record a good signal, on all tracks.

I dont mind the dampening rings on the toms...Generally I use the aquarian heads with the ring in them...but I take it out...that way I still get the attack and dont loose the tone of the drum....I love the tone of my toms and dont like to dampen them much....

My snare I will never dampen...Its a 13x5 pork pie. its got some major crack to it. The tracks I recorded recently have sound pretty nice, using the Beta58 on the bottom really helped. I've been able to get my snare tuned so its loud and cracky without the ring. Evans heads work well.

found a great article about micing drums....

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.n ... 9C006D968A

Well, I lost track of this thread. I didn't win the C4 auction and had other priorities come up so have put off buying overheads, besides which I feel more research is warranted first.

For one thing, in the past few days Studio Electronics has announced and/or released the SE1a overhead mic for stereo pairing. Does anyone have experience with the previous version? The SPL is only 139 dB, which I don't think is as high as some of the other preferred models.

Also, I have been reading more and more about ribbon mics, which I've always been curious about but always afraid to try due to their fragility. But overheads aren't likely to get hit by a stray stick, and ribbon mics are finally getting into the affordable range of late.

I'll hop over to the new Royer ribbon mic thread now and see if anyone has discussed any of them for overhead use.

I still don't have my beyerdynamic M201TG snare drum mic, as the store that gave me a quote hasn't returned phone calls or email. I decided just to give up for awhile and hope it's in stock when I really need it. It's not exactly an easy item to find these days -- very few sources for it!

I've had some experience with the Royer Ribbons....They sound cool, but we only used them as room mics...and after hearing them, I think thats what they are best suited for.

THey require lots of compression and sound somewhat dull...

I didn't run the board in this instance, so I'm not sure what the EQ setup was, but the engineer was using an SSL with on-board compressor etc...

I use the Octava MK-319 as overheads. They have a 10db pad and bass roll off at 100hz I beleive. They are very durable, and sound warm. I've grown fond of using them...Also the Octava MK12..Its a small diaphram but the freq response is great...I used those as room mics recently and go good results.

I have two B5s and they have obvious differences in output. Nothing that can't be corrected by a small gain/level adjustment, but they're definately not all that consistent. They sound ok. I did a comparison between one and a '57. (I know they are different types of mics, I was experimenting) They sound almost identical except the B5 has a little more "air" and almost inpercetibly more high end. The similarity was surprising. (On really delicate stuff I'd use the B5 b/c it will get more detail at low levels.) Also, the B5 is not as "smooth" overall. It does not sound as good as an MXL 603s for instance (which I really like). If you don't need the combo omni/directional feature, I'd suggest getting a better mic for overheads. But basically they are a good, cheap, practical utility mic. That's my opinion; figured I'd chime in since they were mentioned so much. Oh yeah, watch out for the threads on the interchangable capsules: they seem really delicate and mine still had machining debri on them which makes 'em seem "scratchy" when you thread them.

My favorite kick mic: RE20
Snare: SM57 or one of many small diaphram condensors
Toms: SM57 or Audix D4
Floor Tom: Haven't been totally happy with anything.
Overheads: AKG 451B
room: AT 4050

Often times I'll go with just kick and 2 overheads. It all depends on the player.

Phil