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Mr. Tayler; You’re not being ignored, I think you got your answer early on. Now we’ve taken the ball and ran with it. Tends to happen.

I think the idea that people would cheat a performance with varispeed is overstated. In my experience, having used it and seen it used countless times, I’ve only seen it rarely used to play something that was too fast too play, and only a little more often to hit a note that was too high. I’d say in the old days 95% of the time it was used strictly as an effect, these days that would be 100%. There’s just other, better ways to “cheat” these days, but as an effect it’s still irreplaceable.

I’m an audio guy, MIDI is still slightly exotic to me. Having to take a piece of audio and put it in a sampler and play and tune the note to get one piece, when I could just grab the edge and stretch it in about slightly under 1 second is a drag.

bb

People seem to like Reaper for its Varispeed ability. I haven't messed with Reaper much myself. Good info in this thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just had an idea reading the Reaper link that mrbillet so kindly provided:
if the 'thickening of vocals' is one of vari-speed's great abilities,
and it is a result of formants being different at different playbacks,
we could use Spectral effects, and just shift formants on a copy of the vocal.

tommymandel wrote:I just had an idea reading the Reaper link that mrbillet so kindly provided:
if the 'thickening of vocals' is one of vari-speed's great abilities,
and it is a result of formants being different at different playbacks,
we could use Spectral effects, and just shift formants on a copy of the vocal.

I've been doing this for years with spectral effects and now Melodyne. Works and sounds great but honestly the varispeed trick sounds easier. I'm beginning to think it would be handy to have as an option.

newrigel wrote:I don't use it or have a need to use it... big deal man. I'm not ranking on people for using it, I just made a statement that some don't use these tools. I don't rank on people because of their opinions though, I just state facts that some don't have any need for gimmicks or ways of deception. If I track to a tune that's slowed down and then sped up... that's not a true representation of my performance... that's all. No harm done, it's just a trick and some need to use tricks I guess to achieve a musical idea and goal. If you need it then fine, some don't.

Do you use reverb or EQ on your vocals?

RecordingArts wrote:

newrigel wrote:I don't use it or have a need to use it... big deal man. I'm not ranking on people for using it, I just made a statement that some don't use these tools. I don't rank on people because of their opinions though, I just state facts that some don't have any need for gimmicks or ways of deception. If I track to a tune that's slowed down and then sped up... that's not a true representation of my performance... that's all. No harm done, it's just a trick and some need to use tricks I guess to achieve a musical idea and goal. If you need it then fine, some don't.

Do you use reverb or EQ on your vocals?

No! I use environment processing and filters!
WTF does that have to do with manipulating time and pitch is beyond me...

newrigel wrote:WTF does that have to do with manipulating time and pitch is beyond me...

That's the point.

You don't seem to get it that you are cheating too if you use processing or other effects. Varispeed can be used as an effect, just like reverb. If varispeed is cheating, so is reverb.

Except adding reverb doesn't change you eye/hand coordination skills. You still have to play the notes as fast as the music requires.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Except adding reverb doesn't change you eye/hand coordination skills. You still have to play the notes as fast as the music requires.

I think the point was we're all "cheating" to some extent when we alter a performance electronically to get a result otherwise impossible. It doesn't necessarily mean the player can't perform well when we use our techniques to enhance things for effect.

I'll say what's been said several times already: this isn't about musicianship or lack thereof. There could be exceptions, but the bulk of the arguments for these "tricks" haven't pertained to dealing with incompetencies, just different ways to gets sounds or do practical time-alignment tasks.

I feel like an idiot for posting on this topic again. I really should be figuring out how to make money.

-Ian

When I was commenting I was only addressing when it might be abused. For merely fattening up a vocal part etc. I don't have any problem. Or when it's used as an effect and it sounds like that's what most of the people are talking about.

BKK-OZ wrote:

newrigel wrote:WTF does that have to do with manipulating time and pitch is beyond me...

That's the point.

You don't seem to get it that you are cheating too if you use processing or other effects. Varispeed can be used as an effect, just like reverb. If varispeed is cheating, so is reverb.

But sound is created within a space... no? So your saying environmental processes aren't natural? If you shout (from your diaphragm, not your nose ) then tell me what happens...

Ok, I can't help myself.

I think it's time to call in the real experts. Only Hi-Fi enthusiasts are truly educated enough to expound on the finer points of audio validity. Even dust particles settling on our cables may affect the signals we process, so we're all fighting a losing battle regardless of varispeed, EQ, compression, etc. Also, refer to Oscar Wilde's "Critic as Artist".

-Ian

philbrown wrote:

HCMarkus wrote:Newrigel, no one is trying to put you down for not using varispeed. The only reason you may be feeling folks are getting critical of you is your apparent willingness to dismiss others as simply "wrong" when you disagree with their approach to recording or performing music.

Indeed. It's like arguing whether a hammer is right or wrong. It's just a tool. Rather use a screwdriver? Go right ahead.

I don't care what anyone says. A hammer is just wrong. WRONG, I say.

Is anyone listening?

[tap-tap-tap]
Er… is this thing on?

WRONG, I say! Not the hammer.

Please,

• not the hammer!

[cricket… cricket… cricket…]

Shoosh

If I'm gonna get hammered,
I'll get hammered in the mornin'
I'll get hammered in the evening,
All over this land...

Thanks to all!