Digital Performer 11.33 version

[James Steele]

DP does have this, it was at least one point accessible with mackie control (I have not used one in years to confirm if that was broken).

What I'm talking about is other DAWs ability to let a control surface like Mackie Control re-order the parameters that are addressable. Mackie Control could publish them but it was first come first served, so maybe useful parameters for instant mapping would be buried.

DAWs like Bitwig, Ableton Live and to an extent Logic can allow you the end user to choose the 8-16-32 etc. parameters that are published to your knobs and sliders. You can set up your most used parameters to always be mapped to your control surfaces every time you open that plugin. DP has nothing internally like that, so I suspected that James was having issues because the Eucon couldn't "see"the plugin order it wanted etc.

Until I post a video, I'm afraid I won't be able to completely clarify what is going on.

DP 11.32 allowed me to actually go through all the steps to create a custom plugin parameter map and it would initially work right after it was created. Go to edit a plugin but pushing the encoder under its name and it would show you just the parameters you chose and they'd be in the order in which you set them up.

Once you quit DP and then reopened it, when you went to edit parameters in that plugin, only four OLEDs above the encoders would have anything displayed, as it should be, but instead of the parameter name, each encoder would say "n/a" and turning the encoder wouldn't do anything. So obviously the feature sort of worked. DP just seemed to have trouble loading and restoring the parameter map on next launch. The custom parameter maps (for all DAWs) are stored in a single XML file named for the plug-in.

In DP 11.33, the behavior is a little different if I recall... I haven't really had the motivation to go through documenting all this again because my attitude is kind of "Why?" I believe now as you're setting up the custom map, when you assign a parameter to a specific encoder, it doesn't work at all. The OLED above the encoder just goes blank. However, if you quit DP and relaunch, you still get the "n/a" I described earlier.

The behavior in DP 11.32, however... specifically that the feature actually works until you quit DP and then relaunch it... suggests to me that it shouldn't be that involved to fix, provided MOTU can get some assistance from Avid.

[James Steele]

I found a video I did back in March of 2024 illustrating the parameter maps.... will post YouTube link in a moment.

[James Steele]

Okay... here's a video I made back in March 2024 when I first reported the issue. DP was version 11.31. So this behavior was happening in DP 11.31 and 11.32. Still happens in DP 11.33, but as I said, I think it doesn't even work initially now, but you do get the "n/a" in the OLEDs after you quit DP and relaunch it. I need to make an updated video I guess.

The video is UNLISTED... as I'm not looking to call widespread attention to this. But I do hope it gets fixed. It also should illustrate just how useful this feature is, and I'd add that this capability is available for FREE if you have an iPad (or Android tablet), with the Avid Control. Ummm... that is if you're using Pro Tools, Cubase or Logic. Not working on DP unfortunately.

If you go to YouTube you can watch in full res, but it's only 720p for some reason. Sorry about that.

[dwilliams]

I haven't updated in a while. I'll try to do so. Especially since I used Studio One.

Track Window

• Ability to resize column widths
• When naming a marker in the track view, tab to name next marker
• Adjust and toggle the grid from the track view instead of having to switch to sequence editor
• Put lasso tool button on tool palette and add ability to make lasso a permanently selected tool
• Pro Tools style “Render” button to render in situ (non-destructively), i.e., without creating new track(s)
• Have zoom levels from Sequence editor work here as well; ability to set zoom level from here
• Add colors to the timeline to illustrate song sections
• Ability to resize track selector
• “Sticky” track group hotkeys, i.e., when I overwrite a track group (say “All” after adding some tracks and resaving), the assigned hotkey is remembered and doesn’t need to be reassigned
• “Edit Lock” – A column to “edit lock” the track so that it can’t be edited (no recording, no time shifting, no writing automation, etc., keep the track safe from any accidental adjustments)
• Chord lane
• Add start time separate from the loop start time (defaults to loop start but can override to start earlier)
• Compact down song sections (horizontally compress the view, like tracks folders enable you to vertically compress the view)
• Reassigning track layout to an existing track layout name doesn’t delete shortcut assigned
•

Sequence Editor Window

• Pro Tools/Reaper feature where you can make a time selection then drag volume automation, or any parameter in top layer up and down, Reaper, can even use a knob to scale it, so cool
• Lasso tool, see above
• Render, see above
• Show volume, pan and sends
• Add record enable
• Set scale of track/lane, i.e. not have to make minor adjustments in big wasted space. So instead of having the volume range for example from +6 to -96, where I’m making fine adjustments around say -15, drag and scale the top and bottom values to say -9 and the bottom value is -21 and make finer adjustments so easily
• Add more zoom levels (say five instead of three)
• Ability to quantize automation points
• Colors to timeline, see above
• Select data only in the automation lane and not all layers
• Select all in lane
• Copy different types of data, say a volume curve into a trim plugin trim pot parameter
• Just click and drag in sequence editor, like not in lane but click and drag box around lane data, and multiple tracks and lanes, lasso doesn’t always work
• Quick select and cut with auto fades a la Reaper
• Ability to resize track selector
• Ability to switch between snap pitch segment to note and drag pitch segment w/ and w/o modifier key, i.e. I sometimes drag a pitch segment to a note but far more often nudge them up and down and am constantly holding the Command key and this is annoying
• “Sticky” track group hotkeys (see “Tracks” above)
• “Edit Lock” (see “Tracks” above)

Mixer Window

• Option for mixer track layout to follow track layout or sequence layout
• Mixing board layouts assignable to keystrokes (a la Tracks Layouts)
• Visual indication of which parameters have automation written, especially volume, pan and send levels
• Add notes to inserts for comments (ex. Gtrs cut 2k in verses)
• Mix/Blend option on inserts
• Adjustable level on inserts ins and outs
• Add HP and LP filters with quick adjustment
• Phase reverse button
• Solo in front mode
• Ability to resize track selector
• Short cuts in commands for automation modes
• Entire channel reflects channel color
• Faders and pan knobs reflect channel color
• Icons (kick drum, etc.)
• Buttons on the windows for show/hide sections so you don’t need to go into the drop down
• Select or clear all plugins is a insert spot
• Click drag or “shift-click” multiple fx to delete, bypass, etc.
• Embedded “VCA” on each channel to contour while using fader for volume
• Shortcut key for show/hide sends

General User Interface

• More buttons (zoom, track layouts, mixing board layouts)
• User definable, renamable buttons
• More customization options in control panel (a la Microsoft Office, Windows version of course, sucks on Mac)
• Multiple tool bars and huge customization options a la Reaper
• Song overview sections/“folders” like Reaper
• Display name of track layout in tracks window (ideal) and/or control panel
• Display name of mixer layout in mixer window (ideal) and/or control panel

Plug-Ins

• Add transient plug-in
• Audio to MIDI plugin or drum replacer plugin
• Analog summing plug-in suite

Bugs

• Hangs up on bounce to disc on some projects
• Usually crashes on “quit”
• Double click negative space on channel in mixing to launch editor (definable by data type, i.e. sequence editor, MIDI editor, Drum editor…) and/or context menu on mixer to go to see track in track view and/or sequence editor
• Record lock a track so it can’t be accidentally recorded over, should have clear column in tracks window
• Edit lock a track so it can’t be edited without holding an override key, toggle state should be clearly visible in tracks and sequence editor windows
• Auto trim silence
• Normalize plug-in to normalize all tracks without waveform editor.
• Drums to MIDI – Trigger improvements – set gain, less tracks and routing
• Fast way to set bite volume
• The ability to set an insert as parallel w/ gain control for each path
• Ability to set eq on a send
• Separate fader or knob for contouring volume audition leaving main fader free to adjust oveall volume w/o having to launch separate Trim plugin a la Reaper which shows contour volume in swim lane separate from fader volume
• Right click automation point to rapid input data w/o having to go up to bar and type in there
• Why does double click work to rename in bundles, but not track list?
• Two mutes, one automation enabled (marked when used) and one override
• From mixer view indication there is automation on the fader & pan (minimum) and sends and plugins like a little light to show there is automation data on that control
• Double click sound bite gain number in lower left of soundbite to input value
• Override snap to pitch
• Change track color from mixing board
• Recognize the F16 button
• Horizontal grid line in sequence editor
• Option to collapse Sends in mixing board view so they have the same height as the inserts a la Reaper
• Clear pitch adjustments doesn’t work
•
General

• Takes too long to open projects
• Audio system reloads when you launch audio driver configuration screen, even if you cancel out after checking configuration
• Takes too long when you select plugin option in preferences
• Visual indication of whether track groups are suspended with having to open track groups window
• Toggle track groups suspended button, maybe in consolidated window near tools and windows icons
• Stop turning off audio system when launching other audio applications
• Have multiple projects open simultaneously
• Setting pitch segmentation to highest resolution doesn’t, still have to go in and cut segments to smaller size for best editability

Control Surface

• Button to toggle and/or assignable key command to toggle or assign track filtering “pin to mixer” and “pin to focus window” (I don’t really use “all tracks”).

Mobile

• Well integrated DAW control app a la Studio One.
• Mobile companion DAW app a la Cubasis 3.

[bayswater]

Okay... here's a video I made back in March 2024 when I first reported the issue.

Excellent. I was not too clear on the problem you were pointing out, but this makes it pretty easy to grasp, and shows using the Eucon with plugins in DP is pointless. You've also made it really easy for MOTU to solve the problem. It's disappointing that they haven't done it over the past 7 months.

[James Steele]

Okay... here's a video I made back in March 2024 when I first reported the issue.

Excellent. I was not too clear on the problem you were pointing out, but this makes it pretty easy to grasp, and shows using the Eucon with plugins in DP is pointless. You've also made it really easy for MOTU to solve the problem. It's disappointing that they haven't done it over the past 7 months.

Right. And you can see what a potentially powerful tool and outright boon to workflow this feature could be. That’s one of the reasons I’m so frustrated. I was so excited about going through my most used plug-ins and mapping the parameters and never having to do it again. But this feature just plain doesn’t work in DP.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[James Steele]

You've also made it really easy for MOTU to solve the problem. It's disappointing that they haven't done it over the past 7 months.

Apparently solving it requires the right people at MOTU to talk to the right people at Avid. It seems that hasn’t happened yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bayswater]

You've also made it really easy for MOTU to solve the problem. It's disappointing that they haven't done it over the past 7 months.

Apparently solving it requires the right people at MOTU to talk to the right people at Avid. It seems that hasn’t happened yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ah. So it might be a MOTU priority but not at the top of AVID's list. Even so, AVID must have provided some specs and as you point out, other DAW developers have figured it out.

[James Steele]

Ah. So it might be a MOTU priority but not at the top of AVID's list. Even so, AVID must have provided some specs and as you point out, other DAW developers have figured it out.

The way I see it, it’s not really Avid’s responsibility to take the lead on fixing this. I’m sure MOTU wants to fix this eventually… I just think they have bigger fish to fry and this is not on the radar. Probably, again, not a lot of DP users using Avid control surfaces. Although, why add EUCON support if you’re not going to commit to making it work properly?

[toodamnhip]

Good to see the've tweaked OMF/AAF compatibility as I have a feeling I'll be exploring the export functions in the coming months.

I see what you did there Jimbo.

Of course, I've been aware of your tearing your hair out asking for this brother. C'mon MOTU.

I think basically they have a whole lot on their plate and had to make some tough decisions about what to prioritize. Unfortunately for me, I'm guessing there are not a lot of DP users that are using Avid EUCON control surfaces. I partially base that on how bad EUCON support was when I first got my S3 and started writing to MOTU about all the issues I discovered almost immediately. To their credit, they worked with me to fix a lot of these things, but at some point, they understandably had to move to other things. The job was never finished IMHO.

Likewise the hardware insert plugin is a mess. If I have a project containing them, every time I reopen the project, I need to open each instance one at a time, and re-enter the sample offset. Otherwise tracks that have a hardware insert plugin on them will play LATE... audibly LATE! (I went so far as to create a Keyboard Maestro macro that does this for me.) This appears to be because of a strange interaction between the combined latency of the plugins on the Master Fader and the hardware insert plugin. In fact, the first time you use the button to "ping" the external hardware to get a sample offset, you will often get a wildly incorrect number the first time. This number can be thousands of samples... coincidentally often about the same as the latency on the plugs on the Master Fader.

I, of course, have reported all of this stuff to MOTU until I resemble Papa Smurf. (That means "till I'm blue in the face" for those of you how aren't familiar with the childrens' cartoon.) I don't have time for a crash course in computer programming, so that's the best I can do. I have absolutely zero idea when these issues will be addressed (it could be months or years) so I'm faced with a choice. Do I work around these annoying issues for some undeterminable open-ended period of time (again... months? years? a decade?)? Will I even live to see them fixed? Or do I sit down and start learning my way around another DAW (pick one: Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic) where this stuff "just works." Pro Tools is probably a top contender given the sort of music I do.

This is not something I mention lightly. I've been a staunch proponent and evangelizer for MOTU and DP for decades... and well... I started UnicorNation in the early 90s which later became MOTUnation. But to borrow from the Righteous Brothers, I'm starting to lose that loving feeling. Seems like that's something MOTU might care about, but what do I know? There are now Facebook groups that are busier than this board. They may not need me or this board anymore. There comes a point where you want to work they way you want to work, and you can't be hindered by blind loyalty to a company or a piece of software.

I for one hope MOTU does indeed pay attention to YOU potentially leaving DP behind.

[toodamnhip]

Hopefully, DP 11.33 will have some fixes that benefit you.

From the list of fixes, sounds like, and I'm hoping, it fixes the Waves plugin graphics bug. Not a huge issue as there is a simple fix (Run instances of this plugin in real time when plugin window is open) but it would be nice to put it to bed.

What WAS the Waves graphics bug? Is that when the particular automated parameter would drift for awhile after an automation pass, cycling through all numbers before settling down?

[toodamnhip]

Hardware inserts is a big deal, it's becoming more and more expected now that conversion is 'good enough' to withstand the trip out and back. I can't see how this is hard to fix.

I jumped from 8 to 11, so I can't speak to 9-10, but man.....8 was far more stable. I did a full purge and rebuild of 11 recently on both systems and it fixed nothing, have never felt the need to explore that with previous versions.

I've been increasingly in PT due to a few project needs, it sure is solid in a lot of ways. The dealbreakers for me there are the lack of sequences within a project and the lack of mix versioning. No idea if any other DAW has those things. So many other things are more streamlined in PT, though I feel it requires many many more shortcut keys to use as I use DP - more efficient if you know them, very painful if you don't.

So many ways to skin the cat.....

Speaking of DP 8, 8 was the last version to automate correctly, without automation bogging the system and being unreliable on playback.

[toodamnhip]

And I'll say one more thing. I'm obviously not new to DP. And I think my bonafides regarding being a supporter and proponent of MOTU and DP over decades should go without saying. I'm just finding that I'm growing weary of making excuses or being an apologist. I watch DP falling behind and I don't think I'm actually helping them anymore by running interference or blunting criticism when it's deserved.

If I were you, I'd set up a meeting with some exec at MOTU if possible. They should give you one. Perhaps they'd even ask you to sign a non disclosure agreement in any areas you need confidential info on.

[HCMarkus]

What WAS the Waves graphics bug?

Latest Waves and DP 11.32: Some, but not all Waves plugs would not display proper graphically. Examples: Input/Output Meter would freeze at highest point. Sibilance would not show dynamic de-ess amount... it would freeze at deepest de-ess.

Fix was to Run Open Instances of this Plugin in Real Time.

Fixed in 11.33

[bayswater]

The way I see it, it’s not really Avid’s responsibility to take the lead on fixing this.

Agreed. I was just think that if MOTU needs some time or documents from AVID to get this fixed, it’s not likely to be at the top of AVID’s todo list,