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James Steele wrote:

toodamnhip wrote:Seems like I can work in 9.13 now if I am willing to accept small glitches when changing loop points.

Oh the horror! LOL... just kidding. Seems like that's not that bad a "problem" to deal with.

On paper, it looks like a small issue, I am sure. It depends on ones work flow There are times I move around quite quickly, changing loop points to zoom in on small areas while comparing takes. A hiccup in playback in these scenarios can be quite distracting when trying to compare small differences in acoustic guitar strums, resonances, sustain qualities, etc. As DP 9.1x moves forward, like always, there will be more and more “reason” to use it. For example, when the new time stretch and pitch algorithms hit, that will be hard to resist. I am also starting to consider whether or not it is time to move up beyond OS 10.10.5? You can comment, but I will have to research again WHAT problems with software still exist in the newest OS? (Sierra). Id love to hear from anyone on why or why NOT to update. It was rough for awhile, but I am sensing many bugs have been worked out and perhaps 9.13s performance really shines in Sierra?

toodamnhip wrote:

dinobass wrote:...Also, assigning the VI's main output to a bus puts it into real time mode. That's another workaround for any pre-gen goofiness.

Since I have busses all over my files, such as "Drums bus”- “Band Bus”, "Vocal Bus”, etc, does this mean I will never benefit from next gen pre gen without changing my work habits? As long a user of DP as I have been, I have never figured out how to use multiple master buses in DP to control the whole band , or various sub sections, so I have always used buses. Theoretically, I am guessing here that if any user hates the next gen stuff, and hates that theres no “global off” for it, rathe than leaving a bunch of VIs open etc, they can just route everything to a Bus, which can be likened to a global “off” for next gen? Why doesn’t next gen work on busses anyway?

I don't quite get that either. It implies that a VI has to be routed straight to a Master fader to benefit from next-gem pre-render. I never use a Master fader on stereo mixes (always bus everything to an master Aux and record that to a track), but pre-render, and all it's weirdness, sure seems to be engaged. Things like momentary loss of sound when opening VI windows, not being able to audition notes unless the MIDI track is record enabled etc. are still happening even though everything is going through busses. Would I still be experiencing those behaviors if pre-render was being bypassed?

I will add a comment here on something that really “sucks” about moving from DP 9 backwards. MIDI mutes get lost in the earlier DP versions.
It would have been great if somehow MOTU could have designed MIDI muted notes to be invisible to earlier versions of DP. So users beware, if you are in DP 9 and go back, all formerly muted MIDI notes will play again in earlier DP versions. This can suck when for example, you have carefully crafted a hi hat part, muting certain grace notes, and then all that work is lost in an earlier DP version. Of course, to handle this, you will need to go back to 9, ERASE the mutes, before going back to earlier versions of DP.

Of course, to handle this, you will need to go back to 9, ERASE the mutes, before going back to earlier versions of DP.

FYI: Using Capture MIDI is an easy way to instantaneously delete all the muted notes in a track.

HCMarkus wrote:One thing to remember about 9.1x is, compared to earlier versions, latency is 1/2 for any given buffer size. Like some have noted, DP is now very workable while tracking Vis with buffer of 256 and even 512 depending on the VI.

That's great if you need it, but some don't. Latency is not an issue for most of what I do, and it would have been good if MOTU had introduced this as an optional "low latency mode" that could be turned on and off.

toodamnhip wrote:I will add a comment here on something that really “sucks” about moving from DP 9 backwards. MIDI mutes get lost in the earlier DP versions.
It would have been great if somehow MOTU could have designed MIDI muted notes to be invisible to earlier versions of DP. So users beware, if you are in DP 9 and go back, all formerly muted MIDI notes will play again in earlier DP versions. This can suck when for example, you have carefully crafted a hi hat part, muting certain grace notes, and then all that work is lost in an earlier DP version. Of course, to handle this, you will need to go back to 9, ERASE the mutes, before going back to earlier versions of DP.

I'm not sure how MOTU could implement any simple solution to this as there was not really any "flag" for a note to designate it as muted or non-muted when the earlier versions were released. So how could an earlier version even know about this scheme without NEW CODE being added to the old version? There's no way to send a programmer back in time to when they were releasing DP8 as an example and say "Here's some code to insert in this version that will look for this designator attached to a muted note and then ignore them."

There's no easy solution to that. If one can't remember to delete muted notes, maybe MOTU could add some sort of check box to the "Save" dialog that says "Remove Muted MIDI notes." Or add a "Save As..." for version 8 and earlier and treat it as a different format even though it's fully compatible except for the muted notes issue?

dinobass wrote: Also, assigning the VI's main output to a bus puts it into real time mode. That's another workaround for any pre-gen goofiness.

Actually it seems to be working a little bit different (from the DP9 readme)

To force a virtual instrument track into real-time operation all the time (not just when its window is open), record-enable any MIDI track that targets the instrument. To force an audio track's effects into real time, the track can either be record-enabled or monitor- enabled. Alternately, the effect can be placed on an aux track, either in a chunk or a v- rack, with bussing used to access the effect. Aux track effects are always rendered in real-time.

michkhol wrote:

dinobass wrote: Also, assigning the VI's main output to a bus puts it into real time mode. That's another workaround for any pre-gen goofiness.

Actually it seems to be working a little bit different (from the DP9 readme)

To force a virtual instrument track into real-time operation all the time (not just when its window is open), record-enable any MIDI track that targets the instrument. To force an audio track's effects into real time, the track can either be record-enabled or monitor- enabled. Alternately, the effect can be placed on an aux track, either in a chunk or a v- rack, with bussing used to access the effect. Aux track effects are always rendered in real-time.

If a VI runs in pre-gen mode, the multi outs don't get latency compensation when recorded to an audio track. When the VI is in real time, the multi outs receive the correct latency compensation. Audio from a VI's main out routed though a bus always gets the correct latency comp, whether the VI is is pre-gen or real time. On the phone with MOTU I was told that's because a bus puts the VI into real time mode, but maybe the tech was thinking about aux tracks? Nutshell: audio routed out of a bus behaves like it's in real time, whether the VI is actually in that mode or not. So so sorry for any confusion caused.

dix wrote:

Of course, to handle this, you will need to go back to 9, ERASE the mutes, before going back to earlier versions of DP.

FYI: Using Capture MIDI is an easy way to instantaneously delete all the muted notes in a track.

Cool man, didn’t know that...learn something every day around here. Ill have to check that out next time.

James Steele wrote: maybe MOTU could add some sort of check box to the "Save" dialog that says "Remove Muted MIDI notes." Or add a "Save As..." for version 8 and earlier and treat it as a different format even though it's fully compatible except for the muted notes issue?

Excellent idea! Or better yet- "Remove Muted MIDI notes for earlier versions"

With DP9.13 I noticed a snappier behavior concerning loading times, changing of buffer settings, changing windows, etc. BUT I can't seem to bring down the buffer settings under 512! It's ok, since it feels really not like 512 at all but 256 would be my normal setting. I don't get it since the CPU meter is barely moving and I only have MIDI tracks and 8 Vepro 6 instrument loaded (v-rack). But overall responsiveness and loading times are much better.

toodamnhip wrote:

James Steele wrote: maybe MOTU could add some sort of check box to the "Save" dialog that says "Remove Muted MIDI notes." Or add a "Save As..." for version 8 and earlier and treat it as a different format even though it's fully compatible except for the muted notes issue?

Excellent idea! Or better yet- "Remove Muted MIDI notes for earlier versions"

I think that's implied. I'll compromise: "Remove Muted MIDI notes (for earlier versions)."

Vewilya wrote:With DP9.13 I noticed a snappier behavior concerning loading times, changing of buffer settings, changing windows, etc. BUT I can't seem to bring down the buffer settings under 512! It's ok, since it feels really not like 512 at all but 256 would be my normal setting. I don't get it since the CPU meter is barely moving and I only have MIDI tracks and 8 Vepro 6 instrument loaded (v-rack). But overall responsiveness and loading times are much better.

I’m going to have to experiment with this concept of “512 is the new 256”..lol.
If that is truly the case, then I don;t need to run large files at 128 and again, that will be yet another reason to deal with the small remaining issues of 5.13.
I would LOVE to hear from anyone who has switched from OS Yosemite to Sierra, and has seen how DP 9.1x CHANGED for better or worse with the OS change. Another words, someone who had DP 9.1x, saw the performance at Yosemite, then updated to Sierra and saw a difference in DP performance. I think most software has updated enough to work properly with Sierra and I am really thinking of jumping aboard the Sierra train. choo choo

WoW!!! Did you all see this incredibly CLEAR communication from Andrew Bregman from MOTU...on Facebook?

BRAVO!!!!

"As most of you know, the 9.13 update is now live at motu.com. This update mostly resolved bugs which included issues with the Hardware Insert plug-in, Melodyne, Softube Console 1, RME drivers and VEP MAS to name a few. 9.13 is also the first version of DP available with a German translation (tell your friends in Europe!). We are working on new features and the next update will include a completely new and improved pitch and time stretching engine.
If you've been experiencing problems since updating to 9.1, please read the following. It's likely that this information will help you.
With the DP 9.1 update MOTU introduced two new major updates to the audio engine. Pre-gen is a function that renders audio tracks and virtual instruments ahead of time. Testing has shown this provides up to a tenfold increase in how many virtual instruments and effects can be run within DP.
The second major change was how DP handles buffers and latency with audio patch through and live VI triggering. At the same buffer size DP9.1x will now have half the latency as with previous versions.
For the majority of DP users these changes have provided dramatic increases in efficiency in their work flow. For a small group of DP users there have been problems with these updates.
The first thing to understand is that the pre-gen feature is completely separate from the latency updates. If you are experiencing a problem with one of these features you may not be having a problem with the other. Because MOTU promoted the new pre-gen efficiency, this feature generally gets the blame, even if that is not the actual cause.
The latency update cuts latency in half but that is still at the expense of CPU. A lower buffer setting means lower latency, but also at the expense of higher CPU hit. When upgrading to DP9.1x the DP user may notice no other difference besides faster patch through and triggering. However if the computer was working at close to maximum capacity under a previous version of DP (9.02 or below), upgrading to DP 9.1x will keep the same buffer setting but double the load on the CPU. This can cause performance problems. The solution here is raise the Buffer Size. For example a Buffer Size of 128 in DP8 is a real world latency of 256. In DP9.1 a Buffer Size of 128 is a real world latency of 128. DP9.1 is now as fast as Logic.
Pre-gen works with recorded audio tracks and recorded MIDI parts triggering virtual instruments. Pre-gen can not work on a real time audio signal or record-enabled virtual instrument. Essentially pre-gen is “recording ahead” into RAM to lower CPU load. Some plug-ins work outside DP and therefore can not have the benefit of pre-gen. Examples of this include VEP and UAD plug-ins. Also, because the plug-in is rendering ahead, the graphic response (aka level meters) of a pre-gen plug-in will not match what is happening at the time in the track. For these reasons we have included the ability to disable pre rendering when a plug-in window is open. Choose "Run Open Instances in Real-time" in any plug-in's mini menu to force into real-time. For plug-ins that run outside DP, pre-gen is always disabled.
Suggestions for users having issues with 9.1.
1.) Experiment with various Buffer Size settings. Remember that a higher Buffer Size in 9.1 doesn't necessarily mean slower performance when compared with an earlier version of DP. The newer 9.1 audio engine is faster and therefore can be more taxing on certain computers.
2.) Make sure that Virtual Instruments are not record enabled when they don't need to be. Record enabled MIDI tracks are always patched in real time. It's not possible for pre-gen to work on any record enabled track (there's no audio information for DP to process pre real time). If you've got a heavy plug-in (Omnisphere for example) and it's record enabled during playback, you're not going to get the processing benefits of pre-gen. Also make sure that any plug-in windows set to run in real time are closed when not needed.
3.) Keep open plug-in windows running in pre-gen. If there is no visual meter, there is no reason to run the plug-in in real-time.
4.) Consider loading your template into a new project created in 9.1x. Use the File menu, Load, select the DP project file and then choose the Chunk to load. Doing this has resolved issues for several users.
5.) Several third party plug-ins did not play nice with 9.1 upon initial release. We have resolved issues with the third party developers for all problems that we know of. Make sure you are on the latest updates for your OS version. Also, consider updating to OSX 10.11 or 10.12. DP9.13 is supported from 10.6.8 to the latest update of 10.12. Certain users have reported improved performance when updating to 10.11 or 10.12.
If the 9.1 update has given you problems, give 9.13 a try and let us know how it goes.
Thanks to you all!
Andrew and the DP team"

Definitely some important info in there!

Terry