not crazy about the white GUI

[jlaudon]

I think MOTU kept the mixer mute, rec, etc. buttons the same in position so you can clik-drag a bunch of channels. I use this all the time. Well, on the bright side (no pun intended) there is the new plugs, different audio file options, cd burning, etc...

[chrispick]

Geez...

Why does so much of this UI histrionics remind me of when Keri Russell cut her hair on "Felicity?" Did it really wreck the show?

Someone define "self-fulfilling diminution" for me.

Second thought, don't.

I just want to voice my support of the new DP UI trend before leaving this board, if only so MOTU can see that not everyone was blinded by the pixel shifting.

1. I'm indifferent about the white. If anything, I favor its cleanliness. If I were to vote, I'd say it stays.

2. The divider line complaint in the mixing board is odd to me. Each strip in separated by negative space and discernment of each strip via gestalt is fast and easy. I don't aim my cursor for track 2 and land on track 3. Do you guys?

3. Requesting UI changes from MOTU, be they in total or via user definable options, is reasonable and perhaps even welcomed by MOTU despite its immediacy. However, threatening to jump DAW ship to another app because you don't like things like the preponderous of white space is hysterical in all senses, and I hope that's realized.

And with that I split this site for good.

Not because of this UI tussle (which, as I state above, is good and healthy in a lot of ways), but because for a while I've felt the 'Nation had shifted from being a disparate help site venue to becoming an odd, self-congratulatory clique. I've seen many newcomers struggle with feeling welcome here. I've been around a while, and I often feel discomfited by the socially cannibalistic repartee.

It's kind of like the Woody Allen joke about the club and a member.

It's cool though. It's not often I learn anything new from the site (although it happened recently, admittedly). And I've helped enough people thanklessly to rack up as many karma points as a guy like me can hope.

So, I'm off. Peace.

[Mr. Quimper]

Well, for what it's worth, I probably won't actually jump ship. I'm just venting frustration. I seriously doubt that Logic holds a candle to DP's film features, which is the primary reason I chose it to begin with; also, I used Logic once or twice in the past and didn't enjoy it at all, but I'm hoping this new version is a bit more approachable and it does look really cool ...and yes, I know that what matters in a DAW is "on the inside" but I've been a visual artist much longer than a musician/sound guy and these things do affect me. As has already been said, if I have to look at something every day, I at least want it to look half-decent -- hey, we are Mac users after all!

[blue]

chrispick, I agree with everything you've just written. Things have changed here, become a bit too "familiar" if you know what I mean. Surely there can be a happy medium between people chewing each other's heads off (like on some other boards) and the kind of country club vibe here. I think some people here have become a bit too attached.

The UI thing is funny. How many people complained after they saw the Namm pics and vids? I didn't hear much, other than drooling praise for MOTU and overly rosy expectations for DP6. I know the UI has changed a little since then, but not that much. The general look and feel is the same.

I, for one, will be sorry to see you leave. Your posts are always thoughtful, unique and amusing. They often sum up what I'm thinking, which doesn't happen a lot here. Cheers, man, and take care.

[Mr. Quimper]

The UI thing is funny. How many people complained after they saw the Namm pics and vids?

I think it's a difference of scale and resolution. The tiny little pics from MOTU and the ones taken from a projector at NAMM really don't give the full impression of how the whole app looks on a screen.

[jlaudon]

Not being someone who knows much about programming, I'd assume that changing the color of the GUI or giving options to is probably one of the easier tasks associated with DP6, as compared to VI handling, fx, options of what audio format, etc (under the hood stuff). So, I'm 'optomistic' that this will be something that comes in a future (hopefully soon) update.

Chrispick, I'm sad to see you leave the board - you have given a lot of helpful input, and will be missed. all the best.

[Shooshie]

I just realized that the tracks window NOW looks like that cartoonish Cubase SX 3 that I abandoned long ago. Guess I'll have to move on again or maybe I'm back home.

Er... you change DAWs based on the color of a window? Well, who am I to question another's reasons for what they do? But I chose DP based on about 500 things that it does that I just love. The flat GUI is already fading away for me. As I've used it and used it for the past 48 hours (anyone notice that I haven't slept since I received DP6?) the musical work flow and the sound that has emerged have made me forget all about the look. Honestly, these things aren't about looks. I have my color sets that enable me to get certain contrasts within the parts when they're all mixed together in the big MIDI Edit Window, but that's using color for a workflow utility. Despite my initial objections, the white has faded away. I don't even see it now. I'm thinking it's going to go like this:
• Every day when I start work, I'll probably see all that white space and get a little bent outa shape about it. Then I'll start working. By the 2nd hour, I won't even see it anymore. The interface will just disappear into the work-flow, as it should, and I won't think about it until the next day, when I roll out of bed, pour my coffee, and sit down in front of all that white.
• by month 3, I will not even remember DP ever being any different.

BTW, I'm just bowled over by the way this DAW has shaped up. This is actually a very good release. Bugs are few so far. I've had to do some housekeeping, but that needed to be done anyway. This is great. DP rocks!

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Geez...

Not because of this UI tussle (which, as I state above, is good and healthy in a lot of ways), but because for a while I've felt the 'Nation had shifted from being a disparate help site venue to becoming an odd, self-congratulatory clique. I've seen many newcomers struggle with feeling welcome here. I've been around a while, and I often feel discomfited by the socially cannibalistic repartee.

It's kind of like the Woody Allen joke about the club and a member.

It's cool though. It's not often I learn anything new from the site (although it happened recently, admittedly). And I've helped enough people thanklessly to rack up as many karma points as a guy like me can hope.

So, I'm off. Peace.

Well, I hate to see you go, Chris. You're one of my favorites around here. I really don't understand why it's necessary to announce that you're leaving and then head out. I left last March, but I began stopping by occasionally and posting the occasional note in the off-topic forum, starting about a month ago. Today, I "rejoined" for real, and possibly from being a little out of practice and possibly from not really knowing what's been going on around here, I apparently offended you and maybe some others. I still do not understand why. Nor do I really want to. I'm here for DP, to help others with it, to share my experiences. I just don't want to get caught up in interpersonal clashes. But I'd sure like to see you stay -- or at least to see you return. No need to amputate this forum. Just take a holiday from it.

you know, we each have our personal lives. I've been through the wringer over the past few years, and the past year has been one of the worst. U'Nation is a refuge where I can talk about things in a more detached manner. Just have fun, share some DP experiences, learn some things from others, and forget about the troubles. Your ol' Colonel Sanders avatar was always a sign that I was back in that other "home" again. I just wish you'd reconsider.

I thought you, of all people, would at least appreciate the irony that I've come full circle in about one day: from liking the white GUI to being moderately disturbed by it, to completely forgetting about it and thus liking it again. Man, that's irony! (ok... maybe it's not irony; maybe it's flip-flopping, waffling, being fickle... whatever) Anyway, the point is that I'm back in the white saddle, in white pants and white hat and white hard drive and white boots, riding on this white horse, with one little black bridle and belt and buckle. Hey, whatever it takes to get the music done. I'm digging DP6. It's just plain cool! Wonderful upgrade.

But before I go, I'd just like to ask you personally if you'd stick around longer. I may not be posting here every day, but it is sure nice to see you, Blue, Frodo, Fernando, and dozens of others who make this place fun and educational. There; I've said it. I'm not going to say it again or dwell on it. The rest is up to you. Whatever you decide to do, I hope our paths cross again somewhere. Enjoy life!

Shooshie

[James Steele]

Things have changed here, become a bit too "familiar" if you know what I mean. Surely there can be a happy medium between people chewing each other's heads off (like on some other boards) and the kind of country club vibe here.

You know, this place is whatever the people here make of it. I can only do so much. Let's see... people aren't chewing people's heads off here, but it's too "country club" here? I'm not sure what that means? Some people have been here a long time and thus have developed "friends" here? I suppose we could alleviate that by killing to OT forum?

I don't know. This porridge is too hot... this porridge is too cold. But, there IS a way to get one that's just right. I invite those that are concerned that UnicorNation.com is not fitting 100% into their vision of an ideal board to go here:

http://www.phpbb.com

You can buy some hosting space, get a domain name for pretty cheap at GoDaddy.com, and install the software for free and start your own board. Then you can moderate it however you like and you can have people gripe at you for being too strict about posts, or too country-clubbish, or for allowing this and not allowing that. You can mediate petty squabbles and have people make announcements that they are leaving because they don't like this or that. But the good news is that it is in your control and you can actually take a stab at making a better board then the one you criticise for not living up to your expectations.

If that sounds harsh of me, then so be it. Honestly, I am coming to the point where I just don't care. There is no pleasing everybody. It just isn't possible. And, as I said, if you see a need not fulfilled-- an opportunity to create a board that will be the perfect balance at all times-- then by all means give it a try.

But the reality is, that doesn't happen. I've suggested to people before that they try it. But the fact is 99.9% of people don't want to take something on like this that takes them away from their music-- and maintaining a site and providing the sort of intense oversight required to make that perfect board will certainly do that as it does for me. Nope... that's why in this whole great big giant, interconnected, internet WORLD, there are relatively few boards like UnicorNation.com.

I haven't reached that point, but honestly when I read posts that complain about how this board is going downhill, or isn't the same, or whatever... I think to myself, hey, it's free, I do the best I can, if you don't like it, then sorry. It's free. See you-- have a nice day. And as I said before, I suggest people start their own board, but they never do. Too much effort.

Fortunately, I'm not yet so self-focused that I just throw my hands up, cancel the hosting, the domain, and say the hell with it and get my music done and make more progress in areas that benefit me directly. I guess that's a testament to my own stupidity.

I don't want anybody to say "Hey... you're doing a great job" or pat me on the back for it. But perhaps, if you're going to leave here you can do so without lamenting just how bad this board is, and then ask yourself if you'd even for a moment consider running a board yourself.

[BobK]

Well, I hate to see you go, Chris. You're one of my favorites around here.

...I'd just like to ask you personally if you'd stick around longer.

+1

[James Steele]

BTW, for whatever it's worth I agree with chrispick on most of what he said about the UI. I'm pretty happy with most of the changes and I think as with all major releases there are some major kinks to be worked out and I'm sure a 6.01 will help, but I'm doing okay with it as it is. Most of the VIs that are affected are ones I haven't used much.

As for the other stuff he said, well... what can I say. I'll miss you Chris, but honestly I can't help take what you say about this place personally. Do what you feel you must, and I'll just keep on doing the best that I can with this place.

[HCMarkus]

I just returned from a family vacation in Virginia. We hung out for a week with my wife's cousins and their families. We had a great time, but there were a few skirmishes between the cousins along the way. That's what happens with families sometimes. Of course, the cousins still love each other and, in time, bygones become bygones and things continue to roll along. We'll take a brief break, then we'll all look back and laugh about it next time we get together.

Hope to see you 'round here again soon Chris. I have always enjoyed your comments, and your concise writing.

PS: I am typing this on a white background.

[blue]

James, I don't really understand why you're taking what I said personally. It wasn't directed at you, more at the culture of this place in general. That doesn't reflect on you and I never said as much, nor did I imply that I would change things to suit my particular taste. Like you said, the flavor of this board is what we make of it. I have said on numerous occasions you do a commendable job of letting this place grow, only pulling the weeds out once in a while to keep things tidy. As a result, things stay pretty civil here. That alone distinguishes this place from some others I've visited.

What bothers me is the chat room vibe this place takes on from time to time, among only a dozen or so members. I wouldn't expect you to do anything about it. It's just the way it is. Put it this way: I like the freedom of expression, and will support anyone who upholds that freedom, but it doesn't mean I like what everybody expresses. The only thing I want from an administrator is someone who will uphold the freedom as well as keep the peace, as you have done. How I deal with it is up to me, and in this case I'm just expressing my frustration. The other option, I suppose, is to do like chrispick and leave. I guess I'm not there yet.

[grimepoch]

I find this place amazingly helpful all the time and learn something new frequently, which I love.

They say you should fight for the ones you love, well, I do really like DP. And damnit, I'm gonna fight to keep it the best it can be!

As James said, the is an 00 release. History teaches us what happens with that release. I *know* that I took a risk using it on a project, as so far, I am being able to make it, but there are clearly issues, and I expected them, especially with a change so large as this.

I hope people don't just jump ship over the GUI alone. Let's see what happens, let's see what Motu says about what they see here, as you know they frequent here.

This really is a GREAY combination of people, and it's something that I find to be a huge positive when it comes to being a DP user. We have a community of great people and excellent support.

Some of us like the changes.

Some of us hate the changes.

Regardless, as Trinity said to Neo (Matrix), you've been down that road before, you know what's out there. You use DP because it works for you. You know the alternatives and you KNOW they all have issues! It just depends on which ones you want to deal with.

Be constructive, be clear.

Also, pertaining to my mockup of the mixer with little buttons for solot/mute etc. You don't need HUGE buttons to allow dragging across multiple tracks. Even if the buttons are in a small block like I drew, if you click on a button, say MUTE for example, as long as you have the button held down on your mouse and drag, the tracks you go across should change their mute setting. This way, you get the exact SAME performance as far as easily setting the MUTE setting without having to take up SO MUCH wasted space in the mixer.

I didn't even do a width comparison either which probably eats up more room as well which I'd shrink down a bit.

[monkey man]

Man...I started to look at some in-depth screens of Logic 8. Wow. I have no idea how well I'd adapt to the different work-flow/features, but Logic is now REALLY easy on the eyes. Beautiful in fact.

I can't say if I'd really want to switch or not, but for $500, it's definitely worth giving it a shot. It's worth it for Compressor alone! I've only been using DP for 3 years, so I haven't exactly invested my life in the program.

I'm feelin' ya, Mr. Q.
I've been wresting with this for 8 years now, all the while waiting for MOTU to trounce that app.
Progress has been slow in this regard, but it has nevertheless been there.
This year and last, however, more than ever before, it's felt like we're (we 'Cornies) being engulfed by a tide of features (in Logic) that DP shows no indication of having an answer for.
I keep dropping my head, but a little voice keeps telling me to keep the faith... even longer.

Either I'm a sucker of the highest order, or there will be some sort of reward for this dogged stupidity.

I dunno. Might be one less Unicorn 'round these parts soon. (not that I'm that essential to this place anyway. )

Now, now. We all appreciate your presence here, Mr. Q!
Please don't leave us!

On the other side of this topic, I can remember many products that came out I didn't like but we got used to them.... The SSL boards in the beginning had an automation system that was like a pandoras box of unrecognizable , english driving on the wrong side of the street, concepts but it turned out fantastic.

Ha! I learned the E and G series systems (just the basics, really) back in the day whilst attending a fine audio engineering school where we did all of our prac work off site.
Talk about gibberish! Not quite the Ensoniq Mirage, but man!

Of course, because it was so alien to me, I probably forgot most or all of what I knew within months of having sat at the board.
You're right though, Gary - when it worked, it was a beautiful thing to behold.

Maybe Shooshi is right, give it a go. I might put my copy on a second drive and take a looksee & listen. I like the fact that there are a few more prefs and I just gotta see what's there. My curiosity is killing me.

Killin' me too. Can't wait.