HOW CAN I AVOID PRO TOOLS?

[Frodo]

Okay, not to incite more controversy, but what are the numbers - how many DP users and How many PT users. Am I overestimating PT's market share? It seems HUGE.

That's a really tough call, Zandurian.

If you knew how many units of each had been distributed since they were released, you'd likely be counting long term users several times over.

If you only counted sales of new editions and eliminated updates distributed, there'd be no way to determine who of that number is no longer actually using either DAW.

If the number of registered users were public knowledge, there remains the ugly number of pirated versions to consider-- if that figure could even be told.

How many top-line pros, mid-line pros and hobbyists are using either makes for a dangerous guess.

If the generalization that PT is in all the major studios can be asserted, then it's also likely that composers using DP outnumber studios by a long shot. Ironically, the industry standard (ie: PT) is not always so accessible to the general public where industry prices are prohibitive. And yet, the term "industry standard" can be misinterpreted a little too easily where DP has an impressive history of its own.

I wouldn't even know where to begin with an honest head count.

[pcm]

OMF interchange has yielded mixed results. Actually, since DP 5 was released, some people were actually praising it for having worked-- and all too soon there were reports here that it just didn't quite cut the mustard.

I've never attempted it myself, either, but I'm starting to wonder what the MF really stands for!

DP to PT using OMF works 100% of the time for me. Super quick, and bullet-proof. Going the other way sometimes doesn't work, no idea why.

[pcm]

Zandurian, how are you doing with this, bud? Any conclusions?

Okay, not to incite more controversy, but what are the numbers - how many DP users and How many PT users. Am I overestimating PT's market share? It seems HUGE.

I don't have numbers, but based on what I see, I would say it's larger than everything else put together, and then some. In the pro studio world, it's just about 100%. Maybe even.

[pcm]

Zandurian, how are you doing with this, bud? Any conclusions?

Okay, not to incite more controversy, but what are the numbers - how many DP users and How many PT users. Am I overestimating PT's market share? It seems HUGE.

I don't have numbers, but based on what I see, I would say it's larger than everything else put together, and then some. In the pro studio world, it's just about 100%. Maybe even.

[Frodo]

I couldn't pin down any public data on MOTU, but here's a blurb from Avid for Q1 2007.

It's hard to parse out exactly what went to PT, PTLE, Sibelius, or other music-related sales. This blurb does not include reports on video sales. Neither does it really help render an accurate number of PT users.

In our Audio segment net revenues increased 8% to $78.9 million for the three months ended March 31, 2007, as compared to the same period in 2006, while segment operating income decreased 17% to $7.3 million. Of the total revenues increase of $6.2 million, approximately $3.4 million related to our acquisition of Sibelius in July 2006, and the remainder represented increased sales from our Digidesign Pro Tools LE systems and live-sound VENUE product line. The decrease in Audio's operating income was the result of increases in operating expenses that were higher than the year-over-year increase in net revenues. These increased operating expenses were largely due to our acquisition of Sibelius as well as expected increases in marketing and selling and research and development expenses as we invest for future growth in the segment.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/070509/avid10-q.html

I guess you *could* take the odd $79M, subtract $3.4M Sibelius, $2.8M for PTLE, and guess that about $72.8M went to PT hardware and software in Q1 07? Times four = $291.2M ?

But does DP's lower pricing offer it the benefit of more users?

Does visibility and marketing account for the impression of greater numbers where PT is concerned?

The more I think about it, the less comfortable I am with guessing.

[zed]

DP to PT using OMF works 100% of the time for me. Super quick, and bullet-proof. Going the other way sometimes doesn't work, no idea why.

I could make a good guess... Digidesign wants you to bring your projects into ProTools, but they don't want you to leave.

And furthermore I highly suspect that they have arrangements with some of their partner companies so that translators are NOT provided for their plugin patches. I was really vexed when IK Multimedia would not provide a simple translation tool to allow me to continue utlizing the hundreds of Amplitube patches that I had created while in ProTools with my AU version of the plug. I have a hard time imagining that this would be a difficult utility to have created, and I believe that it has something to do with their arrangement with Digidesign. Maybe I'm wrong.

Let the conspiracy theories begin!!!

[Frodo]

I could make a good guess... Digidesign wants you to bring your projects into ProTools, but they don't want you to leave.

Wasn't there an old ad about roach motels-- "roaches check in but they don't check out"...?

[zandurian]

Things like 350 MIDI tracks (PT doesn't even allow that many, IIRC) with tempo tracks that required tricks such as "Adjust Beats" or "Tap Tempo" and with various proportional stretches involved, and lots of other MIDI techniques.

Some people will look at those statisics and say "What???? 350 MIDI tracks???".

I remember (back when DP ie: Performer - was all MIDI) doing an overture of a two hr. musical. That means parts of every single song in the 2 hr. production were involved in one song. I don't think I had quite that number of tracks - but I was well on my way. WOW! Shooshie, you're my hero! That's almost a track for every day of the year!

[Phil O]

I could make a good guess... Digidesign wants you to bring your projects into ProTools, but they don't want you to leave.

Wasn't there an old ad about roach motels-- "roaches check in but they don't check out"...?

Hotel California?

[zed]

Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the DAW I used before
'Relax,' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can import any time you like,
But you can never leave!

Welcome to the ProTools California
Such an ugly place!
What a mighty waste!

[bongo_x]

Things like 350 MIDI tracks (PT doesn't even allow that many, IIRC) with tempo tracks that required tricks such as "Adjust Beats" or "Tap Tempo" and with various proportional stretches involved, and lots of other MIDI techniques.

Some people will look at those statisics and say "What???? 350 MIDI tracks???".

I remember (back when DP ie: Performer - was all MIDI) doing an overture of a two hr. musical. That means parts of every single song in the 2 hr. production were involved in one song. I don't think I had quite that number of tracks - but I was well on my way. WOW! Shooshie, you're my hero! That's almost a track for every day of the year!

yeah, different worlds. at home I might use 3 MIDI tracks in DP (not all at once, I'll bounce it to audio before then). at work, making rock/pop records, I've never used a MIDI track in PT that I can remember, never seen anyone use it.

I only learned MIDI in the last couple years, and my knowledge is completely rudimentary. really, any program has enough MIDI capability for me.

bb

[blue]

Yea, 350 MIDI tracks seems less practical than, say, audio that doesn't sputter every time you make an edit. But there are a few out there that use that many MIDI tracks, including people who compose with large, multi-computer orchestral setups. Of course, many of those people are using other DAWS like Logic, Cubase, Sonar or Nuendo. One of the nice things about Cubase and Nuendo (not sure about Logic and Sonar) is that you can custom label and organize MIDI outputs, so that instead of looking at something that says:

• Giga 1
  • Giga 1-1
    Giga 1-2
    ••¦
  Giga 2
  • Giga 2-1
    Giga 2-2
    ••¦

You can see them show up as:

• Violins
  • Violins 1
    • Vns 1 Pizz
      Vns 1 Trem
      ••¦
  • Violins 2
    • Vns 2 Pizz
      Vns 2 Trem
      ••¦

Very cool for working with large, relatively static MIDI setups.

[Frodo]

Indeed, blue.

I use pretty large templates-- not 350 MIDI tracks, but close to 200 presently-- and adding more tracks all the time to accommodate additional sounds.

Track names are the only way I can fully distinguish a particular sound from its VI and MIDI channel on larger projects. Just typing in all those names takes a bit of patience. Doing that across two or more computers requires a sandwich and something cold to drink (per computer!) during the process. Setting up new templates now takes the better part of a day.

How nice it would be to be rid of that drudgery.

[pcm]

DP to PT using OMF works 100% of the time for me. Super quick, and bullet-proof. Going the other way sometimes doesn't work, no idea why.

I could make a good guess... Digidesign wants you to bring your projects into ProTools, but they don't want you to leave.
:

No it's a dp thing. These same projects will open in Final Cut Pro, no problem. With dp, it either works, or it crashes in the process.

[gearboy]

Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the DAW I used before
'Relax,' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can import any time you like,
But you can never leave!

Welcome to the ProTools California
Such an ugly place!
What a mighty waste!

Many a dongle in the Pro Tools California
MBox 003R
Can't edit in the car.