MOTUnation.com

corbo-billy wrote:

musicman691 wrote: Is there a release notes of what all 9.02 has in it? I know someone here posted what was in the installer screen section of things fixed but I'm looking for a total list of all the bits and bobs in 9.02.

http://cdn-data.motu.com/marketing/motu ... 016-pr.pdf

Not really. That press release really refers to what's coming and not what's in 9.02

cuttime wrote:

musicman691 wrote: Is there a release notes of what all 9.02 has in it? I know someone here posted what was in the installer screen section of things fixed but I'm looking for a total list of all the bits and bobs in 9.02.

http://cdn-data.motu.com/site/docs/dp/v ... readme.pdf

Thanks but that's essentially what's shown in the installer. What I'm looking for is a TOTAL list of everything that's in 9.02 not something that says 'this are just some of the features, etc.'

bayswater wrote:

cuttime wrote:

musicman691 wrote: Is there a release notes of what all 9.02 has in it? I know someone here posted what was in the installer screen section of things fixed but I'm looking for a total list of all the bits and bobs in 9.02.

http://cdn-data.motu.com/site/docs/dp/v ... readme.pdf

corbo-billy wrote: http://cdn-data.motu.com/marketing/motu ... 016-pr.pdf

These are marketing announcements and release notes. Not what you would call documentation you'd expect to find in a manual.

I wonder how many of us read the manual, or care whether it's accurate or up to date.

I actually read the manual and care that it's up to date and not just for myself either. Imagine the new person coming to DP and reading the manual and not finding any info on the features that have been put in since 9.00 dropped?

musicman691 wrote:
I actually read the manual and care that it's up to date and not just for myself either. Imagine the new person coming to DP and reading the manual and not finding any info on the features that have been put in since 9.00 dropped?

Agreed. I read it too. It has a load of typos and general errors and omissions, some of which go back to V5. As has been noted, the links in the V9 manual have disappeared and many of the figures are missing. I could understand the delay in updates when the manual was printed. Now it's a PDF, all you have to do is insert the new material in document creation software.

The fact that these go unnoticed, that there's no sticky for manual errors, that a lot of them are never corrected, and the manual is not kept in pace with updates suggest to me that it's not a priority with most users or with MOTU.

bayswater wrote:The fact that these go unnoticed, that there's no sticky for manual errors, that a lot of them are never corrected, and the manual is not kept in pace with updates suggest to me that it's not a priority with most users or with MOTU.

One thing, I have no idea how quickly MOTU developers will respond, but I've had quick positive responses from MOTU tech support. I submitted a bug via tech link, then had reason to call them the next day and mentioned it, they got back to me the next day confirming; I replied with another bug yesterday afternoon, literally this morning tech had reproduced the bug and sent it in for fixing.
What I'm saying is if you find errors or inconsistencies in the manual, report them. It's probably not that people don't care, it's probably that they didn't notice or overlooked it. I noticed the links not working, but I got distracted and didn't mention it in the reply to MOTU tech, so they don't know etc.

Michael Canavan wrote:

bayswater wrote:The fact that these go unnoticed, that there's no sticky for manual errors, that a lot of them are never corrected, and the manual is not kept in pace with updates suggest to me that it's not a priority with most users or with MOTU.

One thing, I have no idea how quickly MOTU developers will respond, but I've had quick positive responses from MOTU tech support. I submitted a bug via tech link, then had reason to call them the next day and mentioned it, they got back to me the next day confirming; I replied with another bug yesterday afternoon, literally this morning tech had reproduced the bug and sent it in for fixing.
What I'm saying is if you find errors or inconsistencies in the manual, report them. It's probably not that people don't care, it's probably that they didn't notice or overlooked it. I noticed the links not working, but I got distracted and didn't mention it in the reply to MOTU tech, so they don't know etc.

Tech support may be good with technical stuff but when I tried mentioning the manual needed updating/fixing they said that wasn't their department and that they just dealt with technical issues. Apparently the manual isn't considered technical.

Michael Canavan wrote:

bayswater wrote:The fact that these go unnoticed, that there's no sticky for manual errors, that a lot of them are never corrected, and the manual is not kept in pace with updates suggest to me that it's not a priority with most users or with MOTU.

One thing, I have no idea how quickly MOTU developers will respond, but I've had quick positive responses from MOTU tech support. I submitted a bug via tech link, then had reason to call them the next day and mentioned it, they got back to me the next day confirming; I replied with another bug yesterday afternoon, literally this morning tech had reproduced the bug and sent it in for fixing.
What I'm saying is if you find errors or inconsistencies in the manual, report them. It's probably not that people don't care, it's probably that they didn't notice or overlooked it. I noticed the links not working, but I got distracted and didn't mention it in the reply to MOTU tech, so they don't know etc.

Yes, MOTU tech support has always been quick to deal with anything I've raised. As Jack points out below, they don't deal with manual errors -- those are the responsibility of marketing. The fact that MOTU is quite responsive in general, but doesn't address manual errors is what leads me to suspect they are simply not a priority for them or their customers.

As for users -- I once posted a very long list of manual errors. A few views, probably netbots, no replies or comments. Zip. I've made a couple of suggestions about a "manual errata" sticky here at Motunation. Zero response.

Anyway, we're off topic. I'd start a thread on manuals, but, you know ...

Perhaps this sticky can be renamed or a new one begun to list the inconsistencies and problems with the DP 9 manuals.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=90

Not so much a 'bitching and moaning' thread but more of an information thread with quotes from the .pdf regarding the problems with workarounds when known—or requests for workarounds when not. It would be best to confine it to the current DP 9.02 .pdf instead of the normal "How do I..." questions for which the normal threads suffice.

Since a major update has been announced for Q2, it would be nice if the documentation received its much needed update, too.

I am reminded of a Deems Taylor article where he wrote of the fact that performers often know a composition in greater detail than its composer. They live with and interpret it while the composer moves on to another. So often is the case between the users who make a living with a software product vs its developers.

mikehalloran wrote:I am reminded of a Deems Taylor article where he wrote of the fact that performers often know a composition in greater detail than its composer. They live with and interpret it while the composer moves on to another. So often is the case between the users who make a living with a software product vs its developers.

I don't buy the premise at all. The musicians generally either read through a work and move on to the next (way faster than any decent composer ever would) or they reinterpret it sans score, in which case it's not always faithful to the original.

I don't know how the writing for the manual works as I've never written one. I have written white papers for off line storage when they first started and can tell you I didn't have a clue what I was writing about, just reinterpreting the data provided and I'm certain it was not always to the benefit of the person reading it.

Manuals are great for some things, but nothing beats experimentation and experience, and in a program like DP or PT or The Reaping Raptor, one has more options than they will ever need. I probably don't use 80% of what DP offers, most often supplementing a plug in or VI for the included feature. Polar is completely useless for me as is Quickscribe. I'd wish the Notation editor would get a facelift (at least since we're tweaking zoom coding now).

I view the manual as I do a dictionary or thesaurus. If I want to do something I load the pdf and search for a few different key words, but actually reading through the damn thing is like reading the phonebook. If I need a number, I'll pick up the book.

I will add, however, that those who are simply too lazy to open the manual to learn DP get no quarter! If you don't know the app and haven't experimented and pushed a few buttons, my only suggestion to you is...

(don't wait for it...)

mikehalloran wrote:Perhaps this sticky can be renamed or a new one begun to list the inconsistencies and problems with the DP 9 manuals.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=90

That would make sense if we had a load of posts about manual errors spread across the forum -- that would bring them together and be of some use. But we don't have that problem.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

mikehalloran wrote:I am reminded of a Deems Taylor article where he wrote of the fact that performers often know a composition in greater detail than its composer. They live with and interpret it while the composer moves on to another. So often is the case between the users who make a living with a software product vs its developers.

I don't buy the premise at all. The musicians generally either read through a work and move on to the next (way faster than any decent composer ever would) or they reinterpret it sans score, in which case it's not always faithful to the original.

I don't know how the writing for the manual works as I've never written one. I have written white papers for off line storage when they first started and can tell you I didn't have a clue what I was writing about, just reinterpreting the data provided and I'm certain it was not always to the benefit of the person reading it.

Manuals are great for some things, but nothing beats experimentation and experience, and in a program like DP or PT or The Reaping Raptor, one has more options than they will ever need. I probably don't use 80% of what DP offers, most often supplementing a plug in or VI for the included feature. Polar is completely useless for me as is Quickscribe. I'd wish the Notation editor would get a facelift (at least since we're tweaking zoom coding now).

I view the manual as I do a dictionary or thesaurus. If I want to do something I load the pdf and search for a few different key words, but actually reading through the damn thing is like reading the phonebook. If I need a number, I'll pick up the book.

I will add, however, that those who are simply too lazy to open the manual to learn DP get no quarter! If you don't know the app and haven't experimented and pushed a few buttons, my only suggestion to you is...

(don't wait for it...)

RTFM is a good thing but only if said manual bears any semblance to the program in use. And in the case of DP9 there's quite a number of areas where it doesn't and could really screw up a newbie to the program. Also not every DP user is a member here and third party support material is sparse to say the least.

musicman691 wrote: RTFM is a good thing but only if said manual bears any semblance to the program in use. And in the case of DP9 there's quite a number of areas where it doesn't...

Now there's an example of hyperbolic rhetoric if ever there was one!

This is the difference in Track Overview Zooming between DP9.02 and DP8. It is not a lot and I could do with more but I suppose it's something. Dave Roberts responded quickly to my Tech Link query regarding the zoom.

Guitar Gaz wrote:

This is the difference in Track Overview Zooming between DP9.02 and DP8. It is not a lot and I could do with more but I suppose it's something. Dave Roberts responded quickly to my Tech Link query regarding the zoom.

I was hoping for a bigger difference too..

Yeah, not all that useful. A staff display option in the TO window might be interesting.