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beautypill wrote:Let's get back to discussing how the sky is falling and music will never be authentic again because of a single, breakthrough plug-in...

Now, nobody's really saying that.

musicarteca wrote:Imagine this, now you can take a Beethoven symphony or a Beatles song and change all the notes around, change the harmony, the rhythm, etc. Now everyone can claim copyright. They have created a monster!!!!

You right! This is a new start in the Music scene!!!

Remember when drum machines first appeared and people thought they would put drummers out of business? Or that the VCR would kill the movie business? How about cable killing network television? None of these came
to pass.

In order to manipulate audio, you have to create the audio first and then
manipulate it. In other words, somewhere at some point, a human being has to make a decision to create something musical. What is used for the creation doesn't matter.

The end user (the audience) will never know what was "Melodyned" and what wasn't. Nor should they care. Nor should we care. Is there some moral
responsibility we have to not use these tools? We'd still be using analog tape
machines and razor blades to edit if we subscribed to that.

Great points, David.

David Polich

Remember when drum machines first appeared and people thought they would put drummers out of business? Or that the VCR would kill the movie business? How about cable killing network television? None of these came
to pass.

[/quote]

None where killed off but all were alter significantly, mamed.
The pie slices are way smaller.
The personal computer has made my work possible, I'm sure there are arrangers out there who resent me because they're out of work.
The internet access to music is killing the record business. If you get a chance listen to Billy Joel's induction speech for John Mellencamp to the Rock+Roll hall of fame. It's running on VH1.

Must change or die.

A new paradigm and we're right in the middle of it.

No, but "Video Killed the Radio Star".

Sorry, couldn't resist .

Look, all I'm saying is this Melodyne advancement isn't 100% path to panacea. Some people here are touting it as above all criticism. How my countering of that assessment became interpreted as doomsday speak is beyond me.

I'm just jealous I'm not a genius too...

...

chrispick wrote:Look, all I'm saying is this Melodyne advancement isn't 100% path to panacea. Some people here are touting it as above all criticism. How my countering of that assessment became interpreted as doomsday speak is beyond me.

To be clear, I wasn't targeting you at all in my comments. I'm not targeting anybody. I just think this is an interesting philosophical topic.

This plug-in is very provocative on many levels and I think discourse about it can only be healthy and productive. Or at least entertaining.

- c

beautypill wrote

Just to be clear: my '52 tele is a reissue as well. No way in hell I could afford a real one. That being said, it's still amazing.

Recommended: Joe Barden pickups. An ideal mate with the '52 tele.

I guess you switched out the pick-ups.... Danny Gatton...

You've probably have already seen this but, if you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5XH84mmI4

I'm sure I could tie this video into the subject of the post, (performance vs manipulation kind of thing).. but...... na

Suppose I play on guitar and record two chords: E and Em. (let's assume that I am a guitar maestro and I play them so they sound identical in every way, except for the 3rd) Then I use melodyne DNA function and drag the g# down to g natural. Then I A/B the two chords. What do you think, will they sound identical? I would be amazed if they will.

Let's remember that each pitch on an instrument has his own "personality" that human ear unconsciously recognizes. Also, in the E chord, the harmonics of the g# blend with the harmonics of the other pitches of the chord in certain (very complex) ways. Shifting the pitch down will surely alter, in an unnatural way, all the relations among the harmonics. Can melodyne make up for that, to conserve the naturalness of the chord's sound? Again, I would be amazed if it will. I have some serious doubts about the effectiveness and accuracy of this "shifting" procedure.

nickysnd wrote:Suppose I play on guitar and record two chords: E and Em. (let's assume that I am a guitar maestro and I play them so they sound identical in every way, except for the 3rd) Then I use melodyne DNA function and drag the g# down to g natural. Then I A/B the two chords. What do you think, will they sound identical? I would be amazed if they will.

Let's remember that each pitch on an instrument has his own "personality" that human ear unconsciously recognizes. Also, in the E chord, the harmonics of the g# blend with the harmonics of the other pitches of the chord in certain (very complex) ways. Shifting the pitch down will surely alter, in an unnatural way, all the relations among the harmonics. Can melodyne make up for that, to conserve the naturalness of the chord's sound? Again, I would be amazed if it will. I have some serious doubts about the effectiveness and accuracy of this "shifting" procedure.

You're absolutely correct. The two chords will not sound identical. There will be artifacts. There will be will be tell-tale signs of artifice. But the technology is in its infancy.

I mean, look at the crazy things they are able to do with CGI in movies these days. CGI used to look really conspicuously fake and now it can be so elegant and believable that it's breathtaking.

This technology is in its 8-bit Atari cartridge years right now. Just give it time to evolve.

-- c

Amazing with all this new software coming out (and i love it as well) but it doesnt write GREAT SONGS or perform them really either.

Where are the new Lennon McCartney?

Maybe their stuck in front of software tweaking it instead of working on their songwriting craft.

Just a thought or two.

beautypill wrote: I mean, look at the crazy things they are able to do with CGI in movies these days. CGI used to look really conspicuously fake and now it can be so elegant and believable that it's breathtaking.

Well, there you go. I mostly wish they'd stop doing so much of that. It's really the same thing, people put an incredible of time and energy into making these movies full of effects and nearly always don't have anything left for the story, or any real creativity. It's all shiny objects.

bb