DP Question (kind of urgent)

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zed
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Re: DP Question (kind of urgent)

Post by zed »

Sorry, I just saw this thread.
Frodo wrote:If you folks would be so kind, could you please:

1. Open Activity Monitor while a DP project is running.

2. Let me know what it says for--

--- Number of Threads
--- Real Memory
--- Virtual Memory
26
901.93MB
1.84GB
Frodo wrote:Is anyone getting a crash or a spinnng beachball when:

1. Opening a second or third (etc) project without first quitting DP?

2. When switching from one sequence to another within the same project?

3. When activating or deactivating V-Racks?
rarely
no
no

The solution lays somewhere in the immediate vicinity. And Frodo is gonna find it! :P
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Post by Frodo »

blue wrote:OK, I found where I had read about the memory thing. It was a post from Magic Dave, no less. Here's what he says:
  • The way the Mac OS works is that virtual memory is always on. A great deal of what the computer does gets stored in RAM memory. If you launch an app then quit it, portions of that app are kept in RAM. This means the next time you launch the app, it will launch much faster.
    For a Powerbook user like me, this is a big deal because I rarely restart my computer. That means over time, RAM useage becomes less and less efficient. There may be utilities that clear out or optimize RAM. I haven't checked. I do know that a restart refreshes the RAM.
And here's the thread:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... ram#142562
Thanks again, blue.

It just seems like the entire project is being retained.

I'll also try zapping P-RAM, too, and will give Memstest another go.

I need to check with a friend of mine with the same setup to get a readout of his Activity Monitor after a quit and then again after a cold boot just to compare numbers.
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Re: DP Question (kind of urgent)

Post by Frodo »

zed wrote: rarely
no
no
Now, this is interesting. What I'm discovering is that there is a tendency for this to happen on all Macs, but some Macs appear to be more resistant to it than others. Part of it is clearly the way OSX works, and the rest appears to be a matter of whether the hardware can even hang in there.
zed wrote: The solution lays somewhere in the immediate vicinity. And Frodo is gonna find it! :P
I've said it before-- the best way to find a needle in a haystack is to simply burn the haystack!
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Re: DP Question (kind of urgent)

Post by blue »

zed wrote:And Frodo is gonna find it! :P
Yes, Frodo is quickly becoming our resident tech guy. Much to his chagrin I'm sure.
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Post by blue »

Frodo wrote:It just seems like the entire project is being retained.
Yea, that is odd. I wonder how much is supposed to be retained after quitting DP.

For the record, I only have about 250 MB wired after quitting DP (but with Safari still open). That's a lot more than your freshly booted Mac with no apps running. Hmm••¦what does it all mean?
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Re: DP Question (kind of urgent)

Post by chrispick »

On my current DP project...

Number of Threads: 52
Real Memory: 445.39 MB
Virtual Memory: 1.11 GB
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Post by Frodo »

Colonel, you sound like your flying high. Numbers look quite reasonable. Now, when you quit DP, how much RAM is still wired with All Processes? Just curious.

And even curiouser...

Here's the result of my most recent Memtest just completed a few moments ago:
Memtest wrote: Memory Page Size: 4096
System has 4 Intel processor(s) with SSE
Requested memory: 7501MB (7866171392 bytes)
Available memory: 7501MB (7866171392 bytes)
Allocated memory: 7501MB (7866171392 bytes) at local address 0x0000000104008000
Attempting memory lock... locked successfully
Partitioning memory into 2 comparison buffers...
Buffer A: 3750MB (3933085696 bytes) starts at local address 0x0000000104008000
Buffer B: 3750MB (3933085696 bytes) starts at local address 0x00000001ee6ea000

Running 1 test sequence... (CTRL-C to quit)

Test sequence 1 of 1:

Running tests on full 7501MB region...
Stuck Address : ok
Linear PRN : ok
Running comparison tests using 3750MB buffers...
Random Value : ok
Compare XOR : ok
Compare SUB : ok
Compare MUL : ok
Compare DIV : ok
Compare OR : ok
Compare AND : ok
Sequential Increment: ok
Solid Bits : ok
Block Sequential : ok
Checkerboard : ok
Bit Spread : ok
Bit Flip : ok
Walking Ones : ok
Walking Zeroes : ok

All tests passed!
"All that glitter's is not gold..." ~J.R.R. Tolkien
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Post by zed »

Frodo wrote:"All that glitter's is not gold..." ~J.R.R. Tolkien
Is that really a Tolkien quote?? I thought Shakespeare had that one. :?:
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Post by chrispick »

zed wrote:
Frodo wrote:"All that glitter's is not gold..." ~J.R.R. Tolkien
Is that really a Tolkien quote?? I thought Shakespeare had that one. :?:
I thought it was Smash Mouth.

Er, give or take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM96bQkJ-mc

j/k
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Post by Frodo »

zed wrote:
Frodo wrote:"All that glitter's is not gold..." ~J.R.R. Tolkien
Is that really a Tolkien quote?? I thought Shakespeare had that one. :?:
I had it the wrong way around to fit the test looking better that it should have, but it is Tolkien.

And the second line is no less famous...:
wikipedia wrote:"All that is Gold Does Not Glitter" is a poem written by J. R. R. Tolkien for The Lord of the Rings novel. It forms an integral part of the plot. The poem reads:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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Post by zed »

That is a great poem... but just for the record...
William Shakespeare (in [i]The Merchant of Venice, II vii)[/i], wrote:All that glisters is not gold;
Often have you heard that told.
Many a man his life hath sold
But my outside to behold.
Gilded tombs do worms enfold
I don't suppose he was the first to use it either, since often we have heard it told. :wink:
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Post by Phil O »

Frodo wrote:I know that I'm pulling at straws here, but it's not to avoid buying a new computer or having my MacPro fixed. I just cringe at the notion that DP will continue to misbehave no matter how much time and money I throw at it, even if that means throwing money at a new computer.

I just wish I could be more certain about what problems are *truly* hardware related where so many glitches have so much in common on different computers. I mean, I'm willing to do what's necessary-- but until MOTU fixes more of DP's weaknesses there's no way to be sure that anything I do will be truly necessary.
Back in the "good old days" I was writing 6502 machine code for my Apple IIe. Now, I haven't a clue as to how the Mac handles memory. But I do see something here that may be of value.

I know that you do a lot of work with VI's. I do very little, and what little I do is mostly done in Finale. A while back, I posted that I was installing DP 5.12 and OS 10.4.10 on a partition (can't find the thread). Well, since that time I've only had 2 crashes in DP. The catch - I use DP for audio only (most of the time). The 2 crashes I had were with a project that used Model 12. Finale on the other hand crashes daily. The catch - it only crashes when I'm using Garritan Instruments for playback, and once Finale starts crashing, the only solution is to re-boot. Sometimes it won't even launch unless I re-boot. I've used just the notation portion of Finale for hours at a time with no crashes. My gut feeling is that this is a memory problem and it's related to VIs. I don't know if it's that VIs just use more memory or if it's the way in which VIs use memory. But the crashes definitely coincide with VI use.

Don't know if that's a piece of the puzzle or not, but I do know that at least some parts of DP work and play well with OS X. DP gets daily use on this computer and seems to be solid the way I'm using it.

Hang in there Mr. Frodo. Some day we'll have stability.

Phil
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Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Frodo,

Yet another shot in the dark here: how many user accounts are there on your system? I generally keep two (1 for the wife) and both have full admin access. What made me ask is: I was wondering if you switched users, would the RAM release back to the system? Not that this would be a solution as much as a diagnostic to see if it is something in hardware or software.

I scoured VersionTracker for some kind of program that releases RAM. SpeedFreak http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23412
prioritizes the front application in the processor. It might be worth a try if you're crashing due to background apps trying to grab your RAM. Maybe not... It sure would be nice to have a similar program to do the same thing with RAM. Oh wait, that's called an Operating System... ;)
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Post by Frodo »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Frodo,

Yet another shot in the dark here: how many user accounts are there on your system? I generally keep two (1 for the wife) and both have full admin access. What made me ask is: I was wondering if you switched users, would the RAM release back to the system? Not that this would be a solution as much as a diagnostic to see if it is something in hardware or software.
I had two accounts at one point, but I've wiped my drive a number of times over the past few weeks and since the last wipe I've not had a reason to add back a second account.

However, in addition to this shutting down issue-- and speaking more directly (or indirectly) to your point of user accounts, the notion of logging off and back in serves more or less the same purpose of switching user accounts. It's effective sometimes, but there's no substitute for a reboot.
MIDI Life Crisis wrote: I scoured VersionTracker for some kind of program that releases RAM. SpeedFreak http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23412
prioritizes the front application in the processor. It might be worth a try if you're crashing due to background apps trying to grab your RAM.
Now, that just gives me a hardy case of the "Weeeeeeeeell, Doggies"! Thank you so much for this link. I now owe you a KEG of beer!!

I actually was in the middle of scouring the net for something like this late last night when a good friend of mine (another U-nation member) called saying the HE'S having major computer issues! So, we were troubleshooting his system well past midnight.
MIDI Life Crisis wrote: Maybe not... It sure would be nice to have a similar program to do the same thing with RAM. Oh wait, that's called an Operating System... ;)
Imagine that--- an OS that actually lives up to its name. What a concept!
Phil O wrote:...Finale on the other hand crashes daily. The catch - it only crashes when I'm using Garritan Instruments for playback, and once Finale starts crashing, the only solution is to re-boot. Sometimes it won't even launch unless I re-boot. I've used just the notation portion of Finale for hours at a time with no crashes. My gut feeling is that this is a memory problem and it's related to VIs. I don't know if it's that VIs just use more memory or if it's the way in which VIs use memory. But the crashes definitely coincide with VI use.
Spot on, Phil.

1. After doing the last Memtest, which rendered the same results as previous Memstests, I worked with DP on the MacPro again for the first time in several days.... this time with the new habit of saving and restarting any time I took a break (or 2-3 hours, whichever came first). There were NO crashes or kernel panics whatsoever. I'd also reset my PRAM again. Dunno if this can be done too often (?), but it may have helped.

The only problem here that remains is that I can't use V-Racks or switch from one sequence to the other within a project without getting a crash, so Chunks, Songs, and Sequences are out of the question. Don't know when I'll need them or for how long I can avoid using them. Hmm.

I don't even like how I feel as I'm about to type this next sentence, but it may be necessary to spend a bit more time with Logic as an X-factor in this Mac/DP evaluation. This could turn ugly in hurry...

2. I spent a good part of this afternoon on my G4 laptop with GPO and Finale. Funny-- I don't even think about saving and restarting and have always done it every so often, maybe because it *was* a G4 laptop and not a G5 or MacPro tower. Things do indeed get clogged over time and RAM has to be flushed. But I got quite a bit of work done, thankfully.

I don't know how some people can get away with leaving their machines on in perpetuity. I've never been able to do that with any Mac I've ever had.
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Post by zed »

Frodo wrote:I don't know how some people can get away with leaving their machines on in perpetuity. I've never been able to do that with any Mac I've ever had.
I just had mine on for about 2 weeks. But then I experienced some strange Finder behavior today and thought I'd better reboot.

I still think your problems are due to something screwy with your computer and you should just take advantage of your warranty ASAP. You are so used to reinstalling software, you must have the procedure nailed down to a tee. You've got to try it on a different Mac Pro... maybe your apple dealer can give you one for a few days to try it out.
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