DP 5.01-- User reports

[Frodo]

Thanks, Danny.

One interesting choice of words:

Repairing permissions is a troubleshooting tool, not a regular maintenance step.

and from Apple:

Repairing permissions requires receipts for Apple-installed software. Additionally, the utilities only repair Apple-installed software and folders (which does not include users' home folders).

Granted, RP is for Apple-installed software, but a mere troubleshooting tool wouldn't suggest that it "repairs" anything, such as the hardware diagnostics disc. RP actually does "repair" what it's designed to repair by definition-- or am I way off here?

He goes on to say:

To be clear, perfectly clear: Apple does not recommend that you do this.

But what he doesn't make "perfectly clear" is that Apple doesn't DISCOURAGE using this either for any specific reason.

I've often had my Dock act funny, and repair permissions reactivates my Dock's aliases quite nicely. He says he's never ever had to use RP, so I struggle with what flavor of advice this is. I'm not saying that the guy's wrong on that his info is unfounded. It's sort of like this forum at times-- when someone posts a problem and another user responds only by saying that they've never had that problem. Doesn't help, really. But it at least begs the question when such new info like this surfaces just who is exempt from the title of "they"-- and just who qualifies for the title of "we".

I'm going to keep reading and will take all data seriously until such time I learn otherwise, but this does come as a sort of kick in the head.

[macsrock]

hopefully 5.02 will be the one. thats when i might upgrade
lets wait n see guys

[danny]

I don't pretend to have the definitive opinion on this, but I did think that in this forum repairing permissions has been treated as penicillin, and it was worth pointing out that others say it's a placebo with potential side-effects.

[pcm]

My problem w/5.01 thus far:

CPU meter can be hovering around half when I start a project, but then after working with volume automation only for a while, the CPU meter goes up to around 90%, starts spiking red frequently, and the audio quality degrades (sounds like dropouts).

Closing and re-opening the project fixes this temporarily, as does Quitting and re-launching the application. Then about fifteen minutes later, I have to repeat.


This is on my G4 PB 1Ghz/1GRAM w/Traveler attached, doing a 48/16 project on an OMF import from an Avid Symphony.

Oh great. Sounds like a memory leak. Damn! When is MOTU going to start beta-testing their stuff? Maybe they need to look for NEW beta testers. Their current testers just aren't catching the bugs. MOTU? You listening? Please give it some thought. We paid users really do feel like full-time beta testers. It shouldn't have to be like this. We accept a certain amount of this because we love the software so much, but you could do so much more in the market if you'd just make DP solid again.

Shooshie

This really stinks. I can't get any real work done on 5.01. Good thing that I don't need any of the new DP5 features, because it looks like I'm going to have to go back to 4.61 to be able to utilize DP at all on my PowerBook.

Two steps forward and three steps back. So much for the optimization that was our number #1 feature request.

My experience with DP2.7 was pretty good.

[Frodo]

I don't pretend to have the definitive opinion on this, but I did think that in this forum repairing permissions has been treated as penicillin, and it was worth pointing out that others say it's a placebo with potential side-effects.

Very true, and I confess my own guilt in this regard. It would be nice to know just what the specific side-effects could be.

Research. Research....

[Shooshie]

For what it's worth, I've heard almost universally that one should run permisisons repair after running an installer. Installers sometimes screw up permissions. In support of this, I think it was probably permissions repair that brought back my VIs last week, when the 5.01 update screwed up the way VIs showed up and were handled. When MOTU released a patch early this week, Josh's email mentioned that the installer had left some permissions problems, or something to that effect, and the patch cleaned that up. That's not the first time that repairing permissions has brought back my system from the twilight zone after an installation, so I don't think that's a placebo. However, repairing permissions on a regular basis, like brushing your teeth, has always seemed a bit on the superstitious side.

But I've heard a lot worse. There was a flutist in the Houston Symphony many years ago--I won't mention his name, though he's long since switched to harp in the Heaven Symphony--who used to tap his flute's head joint on the music stand before playing. He explained to his students that this "set the molecules in motion, making the flute much more responsive, and giving it a warmer tone." He could even demonstrate it, and sure enough, when he tapped the head joint on the music stand first, it sounded a lot better--at least when HE played it. One could write a book on the many placebos that musicians have created to give them the psychosomatic edge in their playing. Many of those placebos--like gold plated ligatures for clarinet mouthpieces--have made people rich.

In OS9, we had to walk a very fine line to keep our systems running perfectly for Digital Performer. OS X is a whole different beast, and it's apparent that everyone's system is somewhat unique. Different Macs run things differently, and it seems no two configurations are exactly alike. As for permissions repair, it's not always a placebo. I think it should be a tool to try when something goes wrong, but I don't run it very often; only when there seems to be a need.

Shooshie

[Frodo]

Wise words, Shooshie. Thanks for those.

FYI-- user aaronlyon seems to have gotten to the bottom of the shaky MIDI start and click issue--- Disabling "Pre-fill file buffers for Quick Start Delay" seems to have solved his problems. That could be an interesting thread to see if it works for everyone else who's had this problem.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12497

[willheim]

Hey - I am a tv film composer who has used performer since before digital performer - I have used it to score to picture for 15 years or so - 5.01 is dead in the water to me - I can't use it - it is too slugish - my system is stripped for cmposition only - I am running a 2.5 dual processor mac G5 with 8 gigs of ram and over a terabyte of hard drive space - the exact same pallet I use to score my current series is basically unusable under 5.01 so I have gone back to 4.61, which is solid and way faster.

Anyone else experienced this?

[sdfalk]

Hey - I am a tv film composer who has used performer since before digital performer - I have used it to score to picture for 15 years or so - 5.01 is dead in the water to me - I can't use it - it is too slugish - my system is stripped for cmposition only - I am running a 2.5 dual processor mac G5 with 8 gigs of ram and over a terabyte of hard drive space - the exact same pallet I use to score my current series is basically unusable under 5.01 so I have gone back to 4.61, which is solid and way faster.

Anyone else experienced this?

Single Processor 1.8, 4gb of raM
better track counts and far less sluggish then 4.61 for me.
Im audio editing with substantial tracks counts as well.

[HCMarkus]

FYI... I also posted this on the General Computer Forum...

I had been having major sudden quit problems on my Quad since installing 5.00 - 5.01. Reinstalled entire system on a clean partition along with up-to-the-minute- OS 4.4.6, MOTU Drivers, DP and all Plugs and VIs. I was still crashing.

HOWEVER, with a little help from Nathan at MOTU Tech Support who got me looking in the right place, I may have isolated the problem to the Antares Auto Tune Plug, and found a geat diagnosis tool to boot.

Review of my DP CRASH LOG (User>Library>Logs>Crash Log) pointed to consistent crashes on threads 12-14 where Auto Tune was typically residing. I removed the Auto Tune Plug from Computer>Library>Audio>Plug Ins>MAS and put an end to my trouble... hopefully for good! (Testing is in progress now. Keep me in your prayers)

Going thru this experience (which I had never before found necessary under OSX, 'cause DP always ran pretty well) pointed me to the CRASH LOG. What a nice tool! The crash log is a permanent record of all crash reports (you know the ones that pop up asking "do you want to notify Apple?") Take a few minutes to scroll down from the top of a Crash Log entry (each entry is denoted by a row of black dot characters) and you should see "Threads" numbered from 0 on up. The log tells you which thread crashed. You can load as much of the log as you need by clicking on the little circular arrow at the top of the window. In my case, it was clear that almost every crash had something to do with 'Auto Tune", and from there I was able to troubleshoot my system back to health.

Now I just hope Antares and MOTU will work together to solve this apparent compatibility issue. WAVES Tune Lite to the rescue? - Markus

[Timeline]

Hey - I am a tv film composer who has used performer since before digital performer - I have used it to score to picture for 15 years or so - 5.01 is dead in the water to me - I can't use it - it is too slugish - my system is stripped for cmposition only - I am running a 2.5 dual processor mac G5 with 8 gigs of ram and over a terabyte of hard drive space - the exact same pallet I use to score my current series is basically unusable under 5.01 so I have gone back to 4.61, which is solid and way faster.

Anyone else experienced this?

I'd say that about says it all.

[sdfalk]

Hey - I am a tv film composer who has used performer since before digital performer - I have used it to score to picture for 15 years or so - 5.01 is dead in the water to me - I can't use it - it is too slugish - my system is stripped for cmposition only - I am running a 2.5 dual processor mac G5 with 8 gigs of ram and over a terabyte of hard drive space - the exact same pallet I use to score my current series is basically unusable under 5.01 so I have gone back to 4.61, which is solid and way faster.

Anyone else experienced this?

I'd say that about says it all.

I should also add I reinstalled the entire system from scratch.

[Frodo]

LOL!!

It appears that DP 5 has given some a greater appreciation for DP 4.x!

Now, I don't make light of the frustrations people are experiencing here, but just reading over some of the countless threads on DP 4's issues just sheds a bit of irony on all of this.

If nothing else, it has taught me to keep things constructive, to savor whatever G5 stability I tend to take for granted, and to move forward (or back) with great care. The best part about this approach is that it conserves emotional energy!

[danny]

but shooshie, by all accounts RP only addresses apple installers. That much is known. so it doesn't make empirical sense that RP heals DP or anything other than an Apple application's permits. Just because one takes a step and an unwanted behavior disappears, there isn't necessarily a causal relationship. we all know how computers are and that sometimes a second attempt, or a night's rest can set things straight for no apparent reason. It was the same with PRAM or desktop rebuilding on OS9, as far as I can tell.

[Frodo]

The thing about RP these days is the fact that Audio and MIDI Setup is part of OSX. There's really no *popular* way to know (is there?) in advance of running DP if some MIDI releated problem is indeed caused by some disconnect with Audio MIDI, which in turn talks to DP. It's part of the gray area of integration with DAW's and OSX that has understandably led many users to put RP to work as often as they do.