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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:51 pm
by Frodo
Have we come full circle or what?

Amazing to see this sort of thing, especially when there are so many VIs on the market now that don't sound a lot better! :P But there is a very cool factor with something like Squid Tron where the intention is the opposite of bad VI libaries that try *not* to sound like that and succeed at doing it anyway. Of course, Squid Tron is going for something a lot closer to authentically and nicely primitive.

There really is no end to what will make into plugin form, is there?

Cool links, Shoosh and Zed!

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:07 pm
by Frodo
Help! DVD report--

The Special Edition doesn't seem to be in stores in this area, so I went for the standard edition yesterday. Watched the film twice and will get to Disc 2 later tonight.

The DVD menu has been on an indefinite loop all day playing the snip of the title track. It's been running even while I've been writing a string chart!!

The audio is VERY well done, imho. It's much better than "Hard Day's Night"-- which is way too loud in proportion to the dialog track.

One of my favorite shots is Ringo "playing" John's J-160E during "Another Girl". I don't mind Paul's choice of option instruments in that scene, either!

"Lose That Girl" is still the show stopper for me. I'd forgotten how early in the film it appears!

I was also amazed that George is using a black Country Gentleman in this scene. So many people thought his Gent was black, but his original one(s) were Mahogany, of course. Requests for a black model were such that Gretsch at one time released an LE Ebony '62 reissue. The look of the instrument is easily distinguishable from his brown Tennesse Rose Gretsch.

Good stuff, this.

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:28 pm
by Cubehead 666
That's neat-o. I recorded a song with a sample of the background harmonies from "I'm happy just to Dance with You." I plugged that "oh-oh" into a sampler and used 'em as accents.

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:54 pm
by Frodo
Cubehead 666 wrote:That's neat-o. I recorded a song with a sample of the background harmonies from "I'm happy just to Dance with You." I plugged that "oh-oh" into a sampler and used 'em as accents.
Great tune, that one. Interesting-- I just realized that it wasn't written by George!

But don't tell too many people where your oh-oh's came from. That's kind of like all the hits that were made using James Brown's "hit me" or "hey" screams. :wink:

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:16 pm
by Cubehead 666
Yea, let people discover it. That's a good point.

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:32 pm
by zed
Frodo wrote:Help! DVD report--

The Special Edition doesn't seem to be in stores in this area, so I went for the standard edition yesterday. Watched the film twice and will get to Disc 2 later tonight.
You know what?!? I'm a real Beatles fanatic, but this movie drives me crazy. I love all the scenes with the Beatles in them, and that house they live in is a riot... but the story is so friggin' cheesy and tedious to watch... I haven't even made it all the way through disc one yet, and I've already made arrangements to sell the DVD to my Uncle (another avid Beatles fan). I just can't imagine myself sitting through that movie a second time at any point while DVD is still a common consumer format.

I agree that the sound is fantastic, and those shots with the Beatles are heavenly and fun to watch, but the rest ain't. I'm also disappointed that it wasn't presented in the original widescreen format (trimming it down to 16 x 9 was a definite compromise).

Sorry to be so,

Opinionated Zed

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:37 pm
by James Steele
Do you mean trimming it down to 4:3 aspect ratio like regular TV. 16:9 is a widescreen aspect ratio. Was it even wider than 16:9 before?

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:22 am
by zed
James Steele wrote:Do you mean trimming it down to 4:3 aspect ratio like regular TV. 16:9 is a widescreen aspect ratio. Was it even wider than 16:9 before?
I actually thought it was wider, originally ... but I can find nothing on the internet (now innundated with ads for this new release) to say that it was ever any wider than 16:9 (which is 1.78:1).

A lot of movies in the '60s were filmed in wider formats like 1.85:1 and 2.39:1. Back in 1959, Ben Hur was filmed at a whopping 2.76:1. I guess I just expected the Beatles movie to be a bit wider... I probably remember seeing it on my old televsion with the black boxes above and below, and expected it would still be in a wider format wider than my new 16:9. :oops:

In my searching, I did find some complaints about the widescreen issues with the Yellow Submarine DVD:
http://www.fab4art.com/9968.htm

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:35 am
by Frodo
zed wrote:I'm a real Beatles fanatic...
Um---- er ya, now? That's a BIG qualification for what is to follow....
zed wrote: , but this movie drives me crazy. I love all the scenes with the Beatles in them, and that house they live in is a riot... but the story is so friggin' cheesy and tedious to watch...
Dude. You're a youngster. I can tell. You're firmly and still my dear friend and Beatle-Bro for life, and no mistake!! :P

There's a charm about this film-- and the cracks at 60's society were so blatant that the film plays right into the hands of the mainstream while thumbing its nose at them at the same time. John's entire discourse at Scotland Yard is brilliant-- and the detective who thinks he's all "fab" and such isn't fab at all. That was the point! The "establishment" wasn't intended to get the tongue-in-cheek side of it.
zed wrote: I haven't even made it all the way through disc one yet, and I've already made arrangements to sell the DVD to my Uncle (another avid Beatles fan). I just can't imagine myself sitting through that movie a second time at any point while DVD is still a common consumer format.
Oh, Zed. This is serious, dude. I will send you the funds for the DVD myself. (even though the Canadian dollar is 9% higher than the US dollar now.
zed wrote: I agree that the sound is fantastic, and those shots with the Beatles are heavenly and fun to watch,
Mm-hmm-- and...?
zed wrote: but the rest ain't. I'm also disappointed that it wasn't presented in the original widescreen format (trimming it down to 16 x 9 was a definite compromise).

Sorry to be so,

Opinionated Zed
Incidentally, I got 16 x 9 for $18 USD. I also have a 4 x 9 from a few years ago, but this one is full screen and an extremely admirable remastering on my letterbox HDTV.

You're a youngster, you are (and a good thing for it). Wasn't it Lennon himself who said that he was really crying for help at this time? The fact that we can retrospectively see what makes this film priceless.
John Lennon wrote: "The whole Beatle thing was just beyond comprehension. When 'Help' came out, I was actually crying out for help. Most people think it's just a fast rock 'n roll song. I didn't realize it at the time; I just wrote the song because I was commissioned to write it for the movie. But later, I knew I really was crying out for help.
This film was a spoof on the spoof of all spoofs-- James Bond (which people foolishly take seriously even today!). It mocked everything associated with society and showed how every aspect of establishment was stupid and pointless. And its brilliance is that it did it in a way in which establishment was none the wiser. The Beatles themselves spoke of how the whole Buckingham Palace scene was so far out of place that they were all running out to some ante-room to get stoned just to film that sequence.

But you know-- the music is brilliant. And did you notice that only the title cut has anything to do with the film at all? Even there, that was put together in less than a day and look at what a masterpiece it is! It says a whole lot more about whom the Beatles REALLY were than what the film was literally or figuratively about.

I just happen to think that the figurative significance of this film is such that it changed and influenced the "reality" in reality programming even today. It forced artists to put out the hardcore poetry-- yes, rappers, who got sick of having to veil their messages in some superficial cynical context for the sake of mere marketing. Verismo is what Verdi and Puccini called it-- "realism". Opera, ironically, went through the exact same condundrum back in the late 1800's. Isn't that strange? Before that, in order to get the message across it was all about riddles and cynicism. History repeats itself.

That was the irony of Brian Epstein. The lads wore suits-- but they were still the same working class heroes in denim an leather from the Hamburg days, even from the pre-Eppie Liverpool days-- despite how Epstein set out to clean them up. That was the Beatles' appeal-- beneath the Pierre Cardin there was a naughty honesty that could not be hidden. It burned through and bled through every note they put out. That's why the Stones and Animals couldn't figure them out-- they were the same, just dressed differently.

And even in Help! it could not be hidden-- between the old Monty Python bitties waving from across the street to "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away", it's all there! Everything you love and hate about society is all represented.

The film is riddled with inside jokes of its time and had to fit into a "corny" scheme to work. Otherwise, the Lads would have been the drug-fried disasters so many celebrities have become, including Kurt Cobain who couldn't deal with it as neatly. You start out as a poor, starving working-class guitarist in a tee-shirt and one day you find yourself a rich working-class guitarist in a tee-shirt trying to reason how it happened that you became everything you opposed in your youth. You become the walking antithesis of yourself.

So, what did the Beatles do next? They willfully set aside their identities in Sgt Pepper and then totally lost themselves in Magical Mystery Tour. That movie flopped at the time for the same resons that The Monkees' film "Head" flopped. By the time both groups got to the place where they could express their own perspectives of reality, that reality ceased to be the creative entertainment it was intended to be and more a peripheral expression of "recreational pharmaceuticals".

For most Americans, the British could quite thorougly defame one verbally and make them smile about it. That's what "Help!" was. It said "look at this. Doesn't it suck?" Its brilliance was in the fact that it was veiled in the tradition and mock expectation of the day.

I was maybe 7 when I saw the film for the first time, but as older depraved sould shunned it-- all I could say then-- as I say now-- was : "but the music was SO amazing".

Sell the DVD? Zed-- I'd be HONORED to relieve you of it-- but it *is* an important historical document that fits profoundly in a historically specific context.

I'm totally serious, dude. I'm not even asking your opinion or permission. I'll even FED-EX you the price in CAN$ even where CAN$ is now 8% ahead of the USD, mind!! And I ain't "ax-in' " for permission to do so, either. :wink:

Look for a Fed-Ex that says "To Zed from Frodo" on it.

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:08 am
by zed
.
LOL :lol:

Well, I knew I was going to elicit some sort of a response from you, dear Frodo, but I wasn't quite prepared for such strong sentiments.
Frodo wrote:
zed wrote: , but this movie drives me crazy. I love all the scenes with the Beatles in them, and that house they live in is a riot... but the story is so friggin' cheesy and tedious to watch...
Dude. You're a youngster. I can tell... You're a youngster, you are.
I am??? :shock:
Aren't I actually a bit closer to being an old fart? :wink:

I just found that the whole plot around the "sacrifice of the person who wears the ring" and those additional characters to be a real distraction from being able to simply enjoy the Beatles wacky sense humour and music.

But before I go any further, I'd better go and finish watching disc 1, to see if I feel more acceptance towards it today. Perhaps I will appreciate it more now that my expectations have been lowered. :wink:

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:43 am
by Frodo
zed wrote:.
Frodo wrote:Dude. You're a youngster. I can tell... You're a youngster, you are.
I am??? :shock:
Aren't I actually a bit closer to being an old fart? :wink:
Nope. You, my friend, are what we old farts refer to as a "young fart"!
zed wrote: I just found that the whole plot around the "sacrifice of the person who wears the ring" and those additional characters to be a real distraction from being able to simply enjoy the Beatles wacky sense humour and music.
That, my friend, is why they call it "The Return of the King"!!!! :lol: Take Lord of the Rings and mix it with Goldfinger-- add some great rock and you've got Help!

That's the point!! The movie industry didn't care about the Beatles. Capitol Records didn't care about them until they made a splash, and then they sued Vee-Jay records for the rights to "Hold Your Hand" simply because Captiol was an affiliate of EMI-- and not because Capitol believed in them. Quite the contrary. Capitol REJECTED them, so Vee-Jay picked up the first single for the Sullivan Show appearance. Record companies were gettinig filthy rich- especially Capitol, whose claims to fame at that time were Frank Sinatra and Nat King Cole. Now *THAT* was success in their eyes. They had no idea what the Beatles were about even when they had the group legally (if unethically). The Capitol "butcher" releases pre "Pepper" were a testament to the corporate whoredome of then (and now!).

At the time, no one thought the Beatles' music was going to be remembered six months later.

Did you ever see the other rock-n-roll movies at the time? They were a total joke and an embarassment. You have to look at Help! as a precursor to Monty Python.

In a sense, it's like saying that the Airplane films were stupid. (duh?) For that matter, the original Airport films, plus Towering Inferno, etc., etc had no exuses for their intention to be taken seriously.

Same thing with the whole "Scary Movie" series. To say, ah-- that's not a good horror film-- is to miss the point.
zed wrote: But before I go any further, I'd better go and finish watching disc 1, to see if I feel more acceptance towards it today. Perhaps I will appreciate it more now that my expectations have been lowered. :wink:
No, no. You'd be better served by a nap (or a bowl of soup with a season'd ticket).

I love having a disc of Beatles' music videos-- "The Night Before". Are you kidding me? "I Need You"-- what a charming song with a great hook and fantastic melody. "Lose That Girl"? Fa-gedda-baddit.

The opening sequence alone of them singing Help! is worth the price the DVD itself.

And, Mister Z--- what if-- just what if the Special Addiction (edition?) books and production photos appeared magically at your doorstep?

Hmmmm? :shock:

Did I say I was ax-ing?

No, no. I'd rather you put the funds away for a proper vintage 360-12.

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:13 am
by zed
Frodo wrote:I'm totally serious, dude. I'm not even asking your opinion or permission. I'll even FED-EX you the price in CAN$ even where CAN$ is now 8% ahead of the USD, mind!! And I ain't "ax-in' " for permission to do so, either. :wink:

Look for a Fed-Ex that says "To Zed from Frodo" on it.
Okay. Let me get this straight... you are going to send me a cheque to cover the cost of the DVD, so that I can forget about my buyer's remorse and just keep it without any regrets?? Wow! I should probably mention that I was also thinking of selling my Hard Day's Night DVD as well. :wink:

I think you are almost as silly as the friggin' movie! :P

I just finished watching it, and while there are definitely some very entertaining sequences and Beatle moments, I still found a lot of it rather tedious. It's not that I can't recognize the fun they were poking at things, and it is not that I cannot appreciate that it may have been a precursor to Monty Python and made an impact, etc. It is just that this is not really my kind of movie (whether With the Beatles or Without the Beatles), and I know myself well enough to know that I won't be itching to play it again anytime soon. I find Austin Powers AND James Bond rather tedious to watch, as well. Interestingly, I do have more patience for the Scary Movie films... but I wouldn't go out and buy the DVDs.

Sorry Frodo. I know I am disappointing you. :-(

My favorite parts of the movie were the Beatles in their nutty apartment and all the gags therein, the musical sequences, and the then that fantastic ending credit sequence with the kaleidoscope images taken through the ring. That was almost worth the ticket price.
Frodo wrote:And, Mister Z--- what if-- just what if the Special Addiction (edition?) books and production photos appeared magically at your doorstep?
Now you're being really silly... I would actually feel bad if that happened, because that would mean that someone else might be out some guitar/amplifier money. Keep in mind, we're BOTH saving for a vintage 360-12, my friend. :)

I will enjoy checking out the stuff on disc 2... I like all the behind the scenes stuff.

Love that period of the Beatles, visually, and all the fun hats and outfits they wore in the movie... it is kind of a Beatle era all to itself.

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:01 pm
by Frodo
zed wrote:Sorry Frodo. I know I am disappointing you. :-(
Not at all, Mister Z. What you find objectionable may be the very same things the Beatles did at the time. But you'll never find me disagreeing about the music itself.

As for the aspect ratio, Richard Lester talks about his less than stellar budgets, although Help! was afforded a bit more than HDN to make a color film with an international range of location shooting. The Cinemascope or Panoramavision films at the time were clearly spared for the epics. I was fairly pleased not to have the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen partially because my previous copy of Help! on DVD was 4:3.

In any case, here's a player factoid for you: Paul plays lead guitar on "Another Girl".

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:44 am
by zed
Hey people,

Sonic Reality is having another one of their Group Buys this month, and if you join you can get Sonik Synth 2, the SampleTank 2.5 engine (which can play all the Sonik Synth sounds with its 32 fantastic effects) plus 7 other discs filled with useful instruments which you can play on both those engines:

http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?Prod ... ikgroupbuy

I already have the stuff contained in this group buy, so I am not jumping on board, but I can assure you that there is some really good stuff in this deal.

Mr Frodo, I was just playing with a guitar patch called Les Paul More Lennon :-), which has a nice quality to it. There are also a couple of Ricky 12 strings which sound similar to the v63 Rickenbacker. You will find some fantastic electric guitars, basses and pianos (plus tonnes of other stuff) in the Sonik Synth 2 collection... and unlike our more recent Sample Engine experiences, this stuff runs very smoothly on your computer... almost as if it is coming from an external rack. Definitely not a bad time to jump into the game, with an almost guaranteed final price of only $199.

Not to mention... I think Sonic Reality/esoundz.com is one of the best companies in the business. They are really fantastic (products and service).

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:07 am
by Frodo
Hmm less is more, eh? I'll have to check this out. Nice to see more companies tapping into the Beatley bandwagon.

Thanks for the heads up, Z.