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Thank you for your thoughts Zed.
Of course I'm not fussed, man!

Did you consider the fact that woods, pickups and their positions can be heavily tweaked with the WorkBench software?
I too was wary of... make that worried about the "honky" tone you speak of.
It seems to me though that if the presets where it's most noticeable, where there's literally too much "bite", say, are tweaked for less extreme pickup positioning or even mellower woods, one could go some way towards reducing the ol' piezzo honk.

Something that actually allayed my fears to a great extent was downloading some of the numerous user postings from the L6 forums.
The George Benson "Breezin'" effort, for instance, came so close to GB's tone I doubt even you would deny it rocked. OK, grooved.

Lastly, the strings used do make a difference.
The setup on these things right across the range really sux out of the box, IMHO.
A professional setup and possible a GraphTech nut would be the least I'd recommend.
Once the action is lowered, intonation set and nut possibly replaced, the increased sustain and chiminess of the axes seems to improve the overall tone greatly.
Makes sense really, as for one thing, more precise tuning reduces perceived "honkiness", IMHO.

I agree with all your comments, although I don't anticipate cringing quite to the extent you predict I will one day.
Hang, I'm just grateful that I'm essentially one purchase away from being able to start recording hittoons - a pro-effect-loaded DP x.x!

Hey supersonic... here is a blurb from a previous Frodo post which might be useful to you...

Frodo once wrote:In the Fab Four settings window, there are two preference sets which may also help. This particular suggestion may assist with preloading more samples into RAM at a time, which can/may/will help improve performance.

Streaming-- The two "factor" options there are the play buffer factor and the preload buffer factor. This places a certain amount of sample data into RAM. With DP's work priority lowered and with this setting increased, performance can improve in DP.

In DP's Hardware Settings, set the work priority to medium (if it's currently on high) or low (if it's currenty on medium). This adjustment opens up some CPU resources which may be better redirected at plugins than on DP itself. If DP's performance deteriorates (ie: the wiper gets sluggish or GUI functions act strange), leave the work priority on medium.

Hope that helps. I cannot give further advice because I am using it on a PowerPC.

monkey man wrote:Did you consider the fact that woods, pickups and their positions can be heavily tweaked with the WorkBench software?

Actually yes, I had forgotten about that. I was interested in trying that out and creating some alternate tunings, but it meant spending an additional $100 for the software. I remember being a little miffed that the only way to create alternate tunings was to do it with that software and not with a knob on the guitar.

monkey man wrote:I too was wary of... make that worried about the "honky" tone you speak of.
It seems to me though that if the presets where it's most noticeable, where there's literally too much "bite", say, are tweaked for less extreme pickup positioning or even mellower woods, one could go some way towards reducing the ol' piezzo honk.

I'm sure you're right that the tones can be tweeked and improved, and I would like to try a variax with the improved strings and setup... In all honesty, if money was not an issue, I would happily have one of those guitars kicking around. There were certainly some tones on it that I liked... but I just couldn't stand the idea of not first comparing it to the VG strat... and in the end I rejected both for something less versatile but also less expensive and more authentic.

I wish I had both the variax and VG strat back again right now so that I could see how those pickup simulations sound going through my new amp. But that'll have to wait until another time.

monkey man wrote:I agree with all your comments, although I don't anticipate cringing quite to the extent you predict I will one day.

I'm sure you won't be cringing monkey man. I think you are very right that the peizo sound can be mostly processed out, especially with the non-acoustic sounds. In my case, the peizo sound from that Godin guitar was extremely noticeable, and I recorded a bunch of tracks without much processing, that now annoy the heck out of my more refined ears.

Life would be so much easier if I wasn't so picky.

zed wrote:Hey supersonic... here is a blurb from a previous Frodo post which might be useful to you...

Frodo once wrote:In the Fab Four settings window, there are two preference sets which may also help. This particular suggestion may assist with preloading more samples into RAM at a time, which can/may/will help improve performance.

Streaming-- The two "factor" options there are the play buffer factor and the preload buffer factor. This places a certain amount of sample data into RAM. With DP's work priority lowered and with this setting increased, performance can improve in DP.

In DP's Hardware Settings, set the work priority to medium (if it's currently on high) or low (if it's currenty on medium). This adjustment opens up some CPU resources which may be better redirected at plugins than on DP itself. If DP's performance deteriorates (ie: the wiper gets sluggish or GUI functions act strange), leave the work priority on medium.

I more or less experimented with different settings already. The CPU keeps on spiking a lot. The organ from FabFour makes the CPU spike rigth up to the top which to me is completely strange, given that's it's only one instance I'm using.

supersonic wrote:I more or less experimented with different settings already. The CPU keeps on spiking a lot. The organ from FabFour makes the CPU spike rigth up to the top which to me is completely strange, given that's it's only one instance I'm using.

Hmmmmmm. The only thing I can tell you is that in versions prior to v.1.0.021, I was experiencing similar things on my PowerMac. But the new version seemed to remedy a lot of the CPU related issues. As for what they have done in regards to MacPro compatibility, I have no idea. You might want to browse the messages at: http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 and post a question there. Please let us know if you find some answers.

Something else that's completely strange... Frodo has not left us his landmark message... where is that hobbit anyway!?!?

The tech support from Soundsonline is on the case. As soon as I have more info I'll report it here.

zed wrote:... Actually yes, I had forgotten about that. I was interested in trying that out and creating some alternate tunings, but it meant spending an additional $100 for the software. I remember being a little miffed that the only way to create alternate tunings was to do it with that software and not with a knob on the guitar.

Agreed, although direct programmability was given to the Variax acoustic models, where one tends to find more tuning experimentation overall nowadays anyway.
I'd expect it in their next gen. electrics though...

zed wrote:

monkey man wrote:I too was wary of... make that worried about the "honky" tone you speak of.
It seems to me though that if the presets where it's most noticeable, where there's literally too much "bite", say, are tweaked for less extreme pickup positioning or even mellower woods, one could go some way towards reducing the ol' piezzo honk.

I'm sure you're right that the tones can be tweeked and improved, and I would like to try a variax with the improved strings and setup... In all honesty, if money was not an issue, I would happily have one of those guitars kicking around. There were certainly some tones on it that I liked... but I just couldn't stand the idea of not first comparing it to the VG strat... and in the end I rejected both for something less versatile but also less expensive and more authentic.

Hey, I hope they can be improved sufficiently; a lot of what I'm counting on hasn't been tested yet.
For instance, I haven't bought a proper DI yet but when I do, I'll experiment with tweaking (mainly EQ?) the dry sound before reamping.
I'd expect one would have a lot of control over tone here, especially where removing offending honks and piezzo twangs are concerned.

I neglected to mention earlier that the pickup types themselves can also be swapped around in the WorkBench software.
I don't have said app, but if my amp models don't tame some of those guitar sounds and EQ tweaks of the DI'd tracks don't cut it either, I'll grab the app and reposition them and likely swap their types around a little.

I do feel that part of the "problem" is that Line6 seems to have wound up with near caricatures of some of the models; the strat springs immediately to mind, for instance.
When you think of the rear-pickup honk of a strat at its most profound, that appears to be what we have.
Fair enough marketing-wise, but not what I'm after.
Let's hope EQ can come to the rescue here.

zed wrote:I wish I had both the variax and VG strat back again right now so that I could see how those pickup simulations sound going through my new amp. But that'll have to wait until another time.

Lucky bugger.
I'd love a real amp one day.

zed wrote:

monkey man wrote:I agree with all your comments, although I don't anticipate cringing quite to the extent you predict I will one day.

I'm sure you won't be cringing monkey man. I think you are very right that the peizo sound can be mostly processed out, especially with the non-acoustic sounds. In my case, the peizo sound from that Godin guitar was extremely noticeable, and I recorded a bunch of tracks without much processing, that now annoy the heck out of my more refined ears.

Life would be so much easier if I wasn't so picky.

Hey, me too. Fussy old farts, we are.

FWIW, I was worried long before I bought my Variax that I'd cringe one day.
Having finally acquired a guitar of my own that actually works, I've come to realise that I'm indeed grateful as would befit a 25+ year wait.
Given the circumstances, it's hard to imagine cringing one day.
If I do, it'll be a good thing 'cause it'll mean I must be on a good wicket and can afford authenticity.
Either way, I win.

Still reckon Hobby'd be happy with one.
Do they make 'em hobbit-sized?

monkey man wrote:Do they make 'em hobbit-sized?

Sure, they do!




Now for the big Beatle news of the day:

The re-release of Help! on DVD foretold by Mister Zed comes to pass this Tuesday, 6 November 07.

Here's the Deluxe Special Edition:




First the bad news:

List price is $134.99-- but some sites are selling it in the mid $90's.

The not so bad news:

The "regular" edition is $29.98, but street price will likely be under $20 for the first week or two.


Prices mentioined are USD.

Frodo wrote:

monkey man wrote:Do they make 'em hobbit-sized?

Sure, they do!

Doh!

I clean forgot about that guitar, Fwogster, as I'd blocked all events from that gig out of my mind.
It was a nightmare: I froze. The shot was taken several days after the gig, hence the penguin's migrating home in the background.

Assuming the axe was thawed too (I didn't want to see it at the time), it should still be available somewhere.

Frodo wrote:The re-release of Help! on DVD foretold by Mister Zed comes to pass this Tuesday, 6 November 07.

I will definitely be buying the regular edition on Tuesday. Looks like I've got a movie date! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!

The guy at my music store had never heard of Pyramid flatwound strings. And he's been selling guitars and basses for years. Weird.

zed wrote:Looks like I've got a movie date! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!

You and me both. I'll see you online shortly thereafter!

zed wrote: The guy at my music store had never heard of Pyramid flatwound strings. And he's been selling guitars and basses for years. Weird.

Hmm. I might be shocked, except I went looking for these as well-- didn't find any in stock and no one was the wiser. SEveryone must be using iStrings or something.

$32
http://www.juststrings.com/flatwoundpyr ... rings.html

$22.95
http://www.pickofthericks.com/cart32_pyramid_flat.htm

$63
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PGL.htm

$67.20
http://www.tonequest.com/pyramidstrings ... etails.htm

GuitarCenter and SamAsh (two of the largest national stores in the US) don't even list the Pyramid brand. I may have to snoop around for a specialty guitar store. Someone in LA has got to have them.

Tim-- any suggestions?

And here's a little treat in honor of the occasion:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NTb3uifuKDc

Way OT, but Monkey Man -- Best avatar yet!

chrispick wrote:Way OT, but Monkey Man -- Best avatar yet!

I think the term OT has sort of lost it's meaning here, Colonel!! LOL

Now-- here you go. This is probably the worlds youngest Beatles fan!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YiaLSHreYXc

Frodo wrote:

zed wrote:Looks like I've got a movie date! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!

You and me both. I'll see you online shortly thereafter!

Well that depends on whether or not I can manage to secure a hot date for the event. All that Beatley stuff might lead to other groovy activities which are non-computer related.

Thanks for the links Frodo. But damn... every time you send me to YouTube I end up spending too much time there.

I found a song by a singer whose voice is golden just like those Pyramid strings. I sure wish I had this vocal tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91izMzSpeA

chrispick wrote:Way OT, but Monkey Man -- Best avatar yet!

Why, thank you Colonel CrispChick.

It was actually a little large for my comfort level, so I had it downsized by a third party.
Unfortunately it lost a lot in the way of sharpness/detail, but the message of my freezing on the job is still there.

It's interesting to me that you like this one, as it's generated the least amount of interest of any so far (read: not a single comment until yours).
Glad someone liked it.

zed wrote:I found a song by a singer whose voice is golden just like those Pyramid strings. I sure wish I had this vocal tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91izMzSpeA

Yes-- with a little work, this kid could go somewhere in the world if he buckles down and pays his dues!